E Lift. The Yan triple before Excellerator. The scene was actually filmed on the deck of Solitude Station on a chair that was a spare from under the summer deck.
From what I know the chairs were reused on S lift, before being replaced by CTEC chairs. The rest of the lift I believe was scrapped but I could be wrong.
I plan to get to Copper within the next month or so. I already got the rest of the new lifts in Colorado but the Flyer was not open yet at that time. I will get Taos as well when I go to Copper.
Rode the new chairs today. American Flyer is quite the thrill ride. Durring stops (which it does quite often) it rolls backwards quite a ways. In certain spots it also can drop and bounce probably 30 feet or so. It honestly felt very unsafe.
The lift does not roll back. What you’re experiencing is the line equalising itself. Consider how much weight is on the heavy side, and the associated momentum. When the lift stops the weight sags in between towers on the heavy side, then the light side becomes tight and wants to pull back. It always takes several back-and-forth cycles like this to come to rest after a stop. The lift is safe. The old one did this as well, but it wasn’t as noticeable with the lighter carriers.
The bubbles on old F were all manual. They had to have a lift op shut them at the top and another to open them at the bottom if it was windy. Otherwise they stayed up and the chair’s passengers pulled them down if they wanted.
We’ve had eyes on that area for years- in fact, there was once a map with lifts 8,9, and 10 in that basin. I think we’re looking more at upgrading and refining what we already have though. Hard to say.
What is the point of replacing Super Bee, a detachable six-pack still young enough to keep going for a number of years, with another detachable six-pack? I agree East Village needs more out-of-base capacity, but this would not do anything. The Timberline replacement makes some sense, as it does get backed up sometimes, and the equipment is new enough/in good enough shape where it could be moved over to Lumberjack and upgrade that lift. I think the Lumberjack base would have to stay where it to please the homeowners in that area. I also like the idea of an infill lift, although I think that your location is not ideal. It cannot be an effective lapping lift, as everyone would be forced onto Coppertone, and it does not effectively move people around the mountain.
Some other ideas worth considering: Alpine is old, long, and could very easily service the Far East Lot with a small bridge or tunnel spanning CO-91. Upgrading it to a detachable quad could allow them to charge for parking in Far East. Union Meadows is an underutilized part of the mountain due to it requiring a Timberline to Sierra link to lap. An expansion lift there could help spread skiers out. Speaking of Sierra, it could use a capacity upgrade as well, as it also can get decent lift lines primarily because it has such low capacity. Mountain Chief is really old and could go to a fixed-grip triple to match Three Bears.
I remember on the skilifts.org forum someone saying “If upgrading Alpine means they start grooming like they do around the Super Bee, then I hope they keep Alpine as it is till it rots.”
Why would changing the lift necessitate suddenly changing the grooming plan? People don’t ski alpine for the groomers. As it is, we groom Formidable almost every night, and Triple Treat once a week.
Honestly the infill lift would work better if it replaced Rendezvous lift ending in the same spot but starting around CB2 (snowmaking control building off of coppertone), that way the lift could receive traffic from both Flayer and Eagle and move it to copper bowl while providing some good blue green lap terrain. Doubt capacity changes to 6 or 4 as all the lifts in the bowl are all designed for 1200pph though blackjack(4) can be upgraded to a triple (maybe use L chairs when it is replaced to upgrade cap). Timberline should be upgraded as its’ a popular trail system, and the existing lift would be a good replacement for Lumberjack on its existing line.
New Super Bee Express: I agree with skitheeast. Whats the point of replacing a 6 chair with a 6 chair? I don’t think the lift has high hours on it. If your cold, well, skiing might just not be for you, or go to Center Village and catch the Flyer. The only thing I could see being possible for a future replacement of this lift is a gondola, but that’s a push.
Idea: Replace Alpine with high speed quad.
Care Free Express: This lift would be practically pointless. Center Village holds its capacity well. The longest I have ever had to stand in a line at the Flyer is 10 minutes. Eagle has been about 7.
Idea: I like Vons3’s idea for a High Speed quad from where Liberty and Coppertone meet to the top of the R lift.
Timberline Express: I think this should be the next lift on the chopping block. It’s a bottleneck on the mountain.
Lumberjack Replacement: There is no point in replacing Lumberjack, and extending it uphill would be a pain in the a** for beginner skiers. The lift does not get lines. Yes, ride time is a bit long, but the only time I would see a replacement there is when they expand into Union Meadows. I would extend the lift uphill to service that terrain.
Here’s some other thoughts:
Timberline to a 6 chair and re-use Timberline to replace S lift- I am quite surprised that this did not happen before Tucker Mountain and they didn’t re-use S on Tucker.
Storm King to a triple chair as its been getting pretty backed up. Maybe use the equipment to expand into Union meadows
Other than that, Copper is in pretty good standing with their lifts.
Instead of the Care Free lift, I would upgrade Rendezvous to a high speed quad and extend it downhill to a point where it could be accessed from Solitude Station.
It would be awesome if Storm King was converted to an actual chairlift instead of a t-bar. However, Copper insists the winds on the liftline would not permit a chairlift to run on many days. Personally, I think that is because it rides Hallelujah Ridge all the way up so it is super exposed, and perhaps a chairlift could work with a base at the intersection of Easy Road and Coppertone (allowing access from Solitude Station). This liftline would be shielded from most of the wind that goes over the ridgeline.
Something else I have always wondered is why Sierra does not go the extra 100 feet to access Copper Bowl and unload next to Mountain Chief. If it is winds, then why does Mountain Chief unload where it does on the ridgeline?
The Master Plan addresses your Sierra question and attributes the issue to wind. Copper views it like this: Sure, Mountain Chief is already on the ridge, but most people riding Sierra don’t want the backside; they want the face. Even if Union ended on the ridge, you’d still have to hike Copper Bowl. The Master plan leaves open the option that when Sierra gets replaced with a D4C, it gets realigned to end at the top of Union Peak.
Storm King has the most wind-related downtime of any of our lifts. Placing a realigned lift where you suggest won’t change that- if you look at that side of Copper Peak, you’ll notice that there’s no snow there because the same wind rips it off the face.
When Copper built the original Storm King, people would ask me why it was closed (5-10mph wind at the bottom). I would reply “Did you watch the news this morning when they said that the Jet Stream was dipping down into Colorado? The top terminal IS IN the Jet Stream!”
@Michael – since quibbling over minutiae seems de rigueur here, I will point out that the mid-latitude jet is generally above 350 hPA (25 grand-ish), usually over 200 knots windspeed. The winds that you and my oldest bro describe here are surface winds. Certainly not less snow-scrapy for the distinction, just different semantically.
@jJoe – Apparently the folks I was talking to did not have your expertise regarding the jet stream. They nodded their heads and smiled as if they understood the concept;-)
Copper has made pretty good progress on their 2011 master plan 10 years in.
Completed: Woodward Express (2011), Storm King (2013), Celebrity Ridge (2013), Kokomo Express (2017), American Flyer (2018), Three Bears (2019)
Bonus Project: American Eagle (2018)
Incomplete: Alpine upgrade, Lumberjack upgrade, teaching lift above Lumberjack, N-Lift infill lift, Sierra upgrade
Given their current pace, I would guess it will take another ~7 years to complete everything. If there were to be another unanticipated upgrade like American Eagle, I would guess it would be a Timberline upgrade to a six-pack, with the existing equipment then used for the Lumberjack upgrade.
Red areas would be potentially closed areas depending on terrain.
Yellow lines are potential lift trails.
Red lines are existing lifts.
Purple lines are my proposed lifts.
1. This lift would be a 1.33 mile High Speed Quad or High Speed Six running from the top of Jacques Pique to near the top of Lallarookn. The top part may be exposed though.
2. This lift would be a 1.42 mile High Speed Quad running from near the same location as 1 to the bottom of lift 4. Modifications to terrain around Jacques creek may be needed.
3. This lift would be a 1.37 mile High Speed Quad running from near the top of Lumberjack. Again modifications to terrain around Jacques Creek may be needed.
4. This lift would be a 1.08 mile Fixed Grip Triple, Quad or a High Speed Quad running from the top of lift 2 to the top of the bowl shown. This could be exposed though so that’s why I suggested a Fixed triple or Quad. If it was a quad I would put a loading carpet on it to let it run a little bit faster because of length.
Many of them would be unskiable as drawn. The area below Union Meadows and above L-lift is basically flat, with a small (less than 100′ vertical) steep drop into Jacque Creek. Many of the runs in this area, as drawn, would be flattish down to the creek then faced with that gully. The stuff off the lift listed as ‘1’ is already part of Union Meadows, so they’re black tree runs. Getting to them from the top of the lift he’s got here would be a difficult traverse across windblown tundra though. The west wall (east-facing) part of the basin would most likely be blues, from what I’ve seen hiking out there. Really the only lift in this map that would work is the one called ‘4’.
Rough morning for lift ops at Copper today. Super Bee/Resolution/Storm King are down and Excelerator/American Eagle were both stop & go on generator power. Just my luck for mechanical issues to follow me wherever I ski, I thought it was just Stevens Pass maintenance issues :)
You mean rough morning for us :) Lost a phase at the top of the rock, ran B and E on diesel for a bit and kept A-1 and M closed until repairs could be made. Eagle was never on generator. Worst part was the dispatch office is in PHQ which also lost power, knocking out one of the radio repeaters. Hard to catch lift issues when you can’t hear half the radio transmissions.
Is it just me or would a lift from somewhere below top of solitude (like the intersection of coppertone and ez road) to the top of flyer really help the general flow of the mountain? I’ve just always felt that getting from the east half of the mountain to the west half is such a pain, as you basically either have to go up the t bar, go on the sketchy and annoying lower enchanted traverse, or deal with going all the way down and up flyer. Also, I feel like it would help take a lot of the strain off of flyer as eagle never gets a line from my experience, and people could instead take up eagle and that lift. Thoughts?
Funny you should mention that because a lift like you describe is in one of Copper’s Master Deveiopment Plans. They have a lift that starts near the crossing of Coppertone and Carefree and has a top terminal above the American Eagle top terminal. That MDP is from 2011. Some of the other lifts they proposed back then have come to pass, they include making the Eagle a 6 pack, upgrading the Kokomo lift and replacing the old Union Creek lift with the Woodward Express, installing the Celebrity Ridge t-bar and the Three Bears lift. What was also planned but not yet done are upgrading the Alpine lift, and relocating the upper terminal to near the junction of Collage and Copperopolis, and upgrading the Sierra and Lumberjack lifts to 4 packs. It also had planned on moving the lower terminal of the Excelerator lift to below the existing Solitude Station.
I believe you are confusing eagle and flyer. I do remember there being a west to east lift in the master plan, but I think the eagle replacement (which wasn’t on the plan) was done instead of that; due to the low lines at eagle I don’t think another lift to solitude is necessary.
I was talking about an east to west lift, which is not currently planned (as far as I know) but one I have always wished for.
What Argothor is referring to is N-lift, which is intended to supply round-trip laps on an already-partially-developed pod consisting of Bittersweet, the Cache Glades, and Lower Enchanted Forest as well as a couple runs that exist, pirate-style, but aren’t currently developed such as Fast Eddie’s and the Junkyard (which would lead into the existing Sail Away Glades). It would also serve as an additional west-to-east corridor, yes.
I did confuse the Eagle with the Flyer, and yes the N-Lift was what I was referring to. Adding that lift would help relieve some of the congestion on the Eagle lift.
It is possible to get from the east to the west side without using the American Flyer. You go down Bittersweet from Solitude Station, then take the green trail Leap Frog which diverges around where you meet Skid Road (the crossover from Coppertone to the East Village). That takes you over to Loverly, and from there, the West Village Traverse gets you to the West Village. Then you can take the Woodward Express and Timberline Express to get up to the top of the American Flyer.
If you want to do it this way, you can actually go all the way to timberline from solitude (ez-road to minor matter); however, the line at timberline is usually much longer than flyer, and it is a lot of (mostly flat) traversing for a mountain that prides itself on not having much. I’ve done it once or twice, and it actually usually takes a good 5-10 minutes longer than the flyer method and is way less fun.
One problem with the lift you suggest, there isn’t a lot of room for another top terminal near the top of the Flyer unless it is closer to the the ski patrol building which would limit you to mostly the front side runs.
I actually realized that right after I posted this, and was wondering if there’s any safety/construction concerns with putting the terminal below/near the flyer lift line or crossing over/under and ending in between timberline and flyer, as there is some more space there. I feel like as long as you could get to the R/S lifts and timberline from it without too much traversing it would be very useful for all ability levels.
I agree going from east to west is not ideal. My suggestion would be to extend Rendezvous to the See & Ski and Coppertone intersection with a HSQ. Then make a more formal traverse near bottom of the Sierra lift that connects towards High Point so skiers can access Timberline.
This would also provide better lapping terrain for beginners on Rendezvous and easier access to Sierra / back bowls from the east. Storm King isn’t always open and going all the way down to Flyer isn’t ideal. I really try to avoid Flyer whenever possible.
I agree with you that that is a great plan, but one thing I do worry about is the alignment of Rendezvous. I’m not sure you could go straight from see and ski
Oops, sent this a bit early. As I was saying, I’m not sure the alignment from the intersection of coppertone and see & ski straight to the top of where r lift is now would be ideal, as a quick look on google maps makes it look like it goes right over enchanted forest. This could probably be doable, but I wonder if if just adding a whole new lift that ends in between r and s lift would work, and would come with the added benefit of quicker access to s lift. This would take away from your point about better lapping however.
A lift from the See and Ski and Coppertone junction to the top of the Rendezvous lift would require one of two things. If it was straight lined it would have to go over a good portion of the Lower Enchanted Forest, likely pissing off people who like to ski that, or keep the original alignment for the older section and then cut through the trees that are in between Coppertone and High Point. If the second option was done would you put a half way station so people could get off at the current lower terminal of the Rendezvous?
If you’re willing to make a midstation, you might as well make it angled so it can follow the current alignment (although with access to sierra from the midstation), change directions, and then follow Coppertone down to the base. It would probably be a bit more expensive than a straight, half midstation like on Village Express at Snowmass, but you also wouldn’t have to cut down any trees and it would be easier to get to from eagle.
There is probably enough room for a fixed-grip terminal at the Highpoint/Coppertone split (what we call Five Signs). I’ve also thought this would be a good idea. You’d still have to take the road from Bittersweet, though, and your proposed bottom terminal location is in a wetland. Perhaps putting the bottom near CB-2 (Coppertone and B-road) would work.
Thanks for this info! I like your idea on the location of the bottom terminal, but one thing I would worry about if the bottom terminal was placed there would be the length; a detachable lift would be fine but I imagine few people would find its use if it was a fixed grip half the length of flyer. Not to mention the complaints from all of the tourists saying how slow a new lift on the front side is.
Would it be possible to place a detach terminal a little higher, somewhere like here: https://imgur.com/a/gpaEiyS ? From this perspective it looks to me like you could just barely fit a terminal somewhere in that zone, but obviously I don’t know that area as well as you.
Forgot to mention, I was also thinking this could be a good place to relocate timberline (if it’s still in good condition) if/when they replace it with a 6 pack, which would obviously require space for a detach.
No, that would take up most of the existing run. For better or worse we’re stuck with the footprint we have, which was first outlined in ’85. It definitely limits what we can do high on the west side.
Idk about in north America, but im sure the are some in europe. They where fairly popular back in the day because there were no detachable lifts, so lifts rides where much longer and colder. Carlevaro-Savio installed quite a few of them. Especially at Mt snow. here are some photos:
The one you tagged me in is the original F-lift, tower 19 or 20 (can’t quite tell, I’d have to hike the old line to see if there was another tower in the trees that I’m forgetting about).
Lift Blog 
Does anyone know what lift dumb and dumber was filmed on during when hairy got his tongue stuck on the chair?
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Rendezvous
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No. See the responses below.😉
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E Lift. The Yan triple before Excellerator. The scene was actually filmed on the deck of Solitude Station on a chair that was a spare from under the summer deck.
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Thanks! Did E lift sell?
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From what I know the chairs were reused on S lift, before being replaced by CTEC chairs. The rest of the lift I believe was scrapped but I could be wrong.
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E’s carriers did go to S. The gearbox and drive bullwheel went to R, as did the tower assemblies and lifting gantries (R originally had none).
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Peter- you show that C-lift was removed. It wasn’t, I still maintain it. Its other name is Gem.
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Today during testing of the American Eagle lift, I heard via local news that a gondola cabin had fallen off the haul rope. As this was during a test, no one was on the lift, so no casualties. The cause? I’ve heard that the cabin hit a piece of construction material.
News story: https://www.9news.com/article/money/business/empty-gondola-falls-from-new-lift-at-copper-mountain/73-617806868
Sorry I couldn’t get the video.
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Peter, are you heading to Colorado soon to take pictures of the new American Eagle and Flyer?
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I plan to get to Copper within the next month or so. I already got the rest of the new lifts in Colorado but the Flyer was not open yet at that time. I will get Taos as well when I go to Copper.
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Rode the new chairs today. American Flyer is quite the thrill ride. Durring stops (which it does quite often) it rolls backwards quite a ways. In certain spots it also can drop and bounce probably 30 feet or so. It honestly felt very unsafe.
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The lift does not roll back. What you’re experiencing is the line equalising itself. Consider how much weight is on the heavy side, and the associated momentum. When the lift stops the weight sags in between towers on the heavy side, then the light side becomes tight and wants to pull back. It always takes several back-and-forth cycles like this to come to rest after a stop. The lift is safe. The old one did this as well, but it wasn’t as noticeable with the lighter carriers.
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The Old E chair at Copper had bubbles?
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No. The original F lift at Copper had bubbles.
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that was the fixed grip in the place of American Eagle right? How did the bubbles work on a fixed grip chairlift?
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For a modern example take a look at some of the lifts at Yellowstone Club.
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The two fixed grip lifts at Yellowstone Club with bubbles are both pulse lifts. Lift F wasn’t a pulse lift.
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The bubbles on old F were all manual. They had to have a lift op shut them at the top and another to open them at the bottom if it was windy. Otherwise they stayed up and the chair’s passengers pulled them down if they wanted.
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Timberline express is 1100 not 1000
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In their master plan it shows a possible location for new lifts in a place called Jacques Basin. Does anyone think this will happen? https://skimap.org/data/509/916/1421292663.jpg
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We’ve had eyes on that area for years- in fact, there was once a map with lifts 8,9, and 10 in that basin. I think we’re looking more at upgrading and refining what we already have though. Hard to say.
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Blackjack received a Skytrac return station in 2019 as the loading area had to be moved to accommodate the Three Bears lift.
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Here’s what I was thinking about what Copper Mt. should do in future plans.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=14G_21veS_oi7hJyFgdmtEHObPsWwKXOG&ll=39.49241988113821%2C-106.16922938975154&z=14
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What is the point of replacing Super Bee, a detachable six-pack still young enough to keep going for a number of years, with another detachable six-pack? I agree East Village needs more out-of-base capacity, but this would not do anything. The Timberline replacement makes some sense, as it does get backed up sometimes, and the equipment is new enough/in good enough shape where it could be moved over to Lumberjack and upgrade that lift. I think the Lumberjack base would have to stay where it to please the homeowners in that area. I also like the idea of an infill lift, although I think that your location is not ideal. It cannot be an effective lapping lift, as everyone would be forced onto Coppertone, and it does not effectively move people around the mountain.
Some other ideas worth considering: Alpine is old, long, and could very easily service the Far East Lot with a small bridge or tunnel spanning CO-91. Upgrading it to a detachable quad could allow them to charge for parking in Far East. Union Meadows is an underutilized part of the mountain due to it requiring a Timberline to Sierra link to lap. An expansion lift there could help spread skiers out. Speaking of Sierra, it could use a capacity upgrade as well, as it also can get decent lift lines primarily because it has such low capacity. Mountain Chief is really old and could go to a fixed-grip triple to match Three Bears.
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I think the Master Plan has Alpine being upgraded to a high speed quad and being extended a bit higher up to the top of Copperopolis.
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I think the one caveat of upgrading Alpine is that Copper would need to start grooming the four trails it services on a nightly basis.
Maybe one of the trails could be reclassified as a blue trail?
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I remember on the skilifts.org forum someone saying “If upgrading Alpine means they start grooming like they do around the Super Bee, then I hope they keep Alpine as it is till it rots.”
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It’s like they don’t realize they’d still have the Resolution pod. And not all the Super Bee blacks are groomed, I think.
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Why would changing the lift necessitate suddenly changing the grooming plan? People don’t ski alpine for the groomers. As it is, we groom Formidable almost every night, and Triple Treat once a week.
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Honestly the infill lift would work better if it replaced Rendezvous lift ending in the same spot but starting around CB2 (snowmaking control building off of coppertone), that way the lift could receive traffic from both Flayer and Eagle and move it to copper bowl while providing some good blue green lap terrain. Doubt capacity changes to 6 or 4 as all the lifts in the bowl are all designed for 1200pph though blackjack(4) can be upgraded to a triple (maybe use L chairs when it is replaced to upgrade cap). Timberline should be upgraded as its’ a popular trail system, and the existing lift would be a good replacement for Lumberjack on its existing line.
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New Super Bee Express: I agree with skitheeast. Whats the point of replacing a 6 chair with a 6 chair? I don’t think the lift has high hours on it. If your cold, well, skiing might just not be for you, or go to Center Village and catch the Flyer. The only thing I could see being possible for a future replacement of this lift is a gondola, but that’s a push.
Idea: Replace Alpine with high speed quad.
Care Free Express: This lift would be practically pointless. Center Village holds its capacity well. The longest I have ever had to stand in a line at the Flyer is 10 minutes. Eagle has been about 7.
Idea: I like Vons3’s idea for a High Speed quad from where Liberty and Coppertone meet to the top of the R lift.
Timberline Express: I think this should be the next lift on the chopping block. It’s a bottleneck on the mountain.
Lumberjack Replacement: There is no point in replacing Lumberjack, and extending it uphill would be a pain in the a** for beginner skiers. The lift does not get lines. Yes, ride time is a bit long, but the only time I would see a replacement there is when they expand into Union Meadows. I would extend the lift uphill to service that terrain.
Here’s some other thoughts:
Timberline to a 6 chair and re-use Timberline to replace S lift- I am quite surprised that this did not happen before Tucker Mountain and they didn’t re-use S on Tucker.
Storm King to a triple chair as its been getting pretty backed up. Maybe use the equipment to expand into Union meadows
Other than that, Copper is in pretty good standing with their lifts.
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Instead of the Care Free lift, I would upgrade Rendezvous to a high speed quad and extend it downhill to a point where it could be accessed from Solitude Station.
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That could work. But wouldn’t it be likely relocated from it’s original spot and make the line down CopperTone and where it ends.
I could do that.
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It would be awesome if Storm King was converted to an actual chairlift instead of a t-bar. However, Copper insists the winds on the liftline would not permit a chairlift to run on many days. Personally, I think that is because it rides Hallelujah Ridge all the way up so it is super exposed, and perhaps a chairlift could work with a base at the intersection of Easy Road and Coppertone (allowing access from Solitude Station). This liftline would be shielded from most of the wind that goes over the ridgeline.
Something else I have always wondered is why Sierra does not go the extra 100 feet to access Copper Bowl and unload next to Mountain Chief. If it is winds, then why does Mountain Chief unload where it does on the ridgeline?
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The Master Plan addresses your Sierra question and attributes the issue to wind. Copper views it like this: Sure, Mountain Chief is already on the ridge, but most people riding Sierra don’t want the backside; they want the face. Even if Union ended on the ridge, you’d still have to hike Copper Bowl. The Master plan leaves open the option that when Sierra gets replaced with a D4C, it gets realigned to end at the top of Union Peak.
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Since the install of Celebrity Ridge platter it’s unlikely any new S lift would change from the current alignment.
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Storm King has the most wind-related downtime of any of our lifts. Placing a realigned lift where you suggest won’t change that- if you look at that side of Copper Peak, you’ll notice that there’s no snow there because the same wind rips it off the face.
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When Copper built the original Storm King, people would ask me why it was closed (5-10mph wind at the bottom). I would reply “Did you watch the news this morning when they said that the Jet Stream was dipping down into Colorado? The top terminal IS IN the Jet Stream!”
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@Michael – since quibbling over minutiae seems de rigueur here, I will point out that the mid-latitude jet is generally above 350 hPA (25 grand-ish), usually over 200 knots windspeed. The winds that you and my oldest bro describe here are surface winds. Certainly not less snow-scrapy for the distinction, just different semantically.
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@jJoe – Apparently the folks I was talking to did not have your expertise regarding the jet stream. They nodded their heads and smiled as if they understood the concept;-)
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@michael – Perfect. Follow up question: Where do you put the moguls at night and how do you get them back on some of the runs and not others?
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Copper has made pretty good progress on their 2011 master plan 10 years in.
Completed: Woodward Express (2011), Storm King (2013), Celebrity Ridge (2013), Kokomo Express (2017), American Flyer (2018), Three Bears (2019)
Bonus Project: American Eagle (2018)
Incomplete: Alpine upgrade, Lumberjack upgrade, teaching lift above Lumberjack, N-Lift infill lift, Sierra upgrade
Given their current pace, I would guess it will take another ~7 years to complete everything. If there were to be another unanticipated upgrade like American Eagle, I would guess it would be a Timberline upgrade to a six-pack, with the existing equipment then used for the Lumberjack upgrade.
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My lift ideas for Jacques basin
https://imgur.com/gallery/LhJVSV
Red areas would be potentially closed areas depending on terrain.
Yellow lines are potential lift trails.
Red lines are existing lifts.
Purple lines are my proposed lifts.
1. This lift would be a 1.33 mile High Speed Quad or High Speed Six running from the top of Jacques Pique to near the top of Lallarookn. The top part may be exposed though.
2. This lift would be a 1.42 mile High Speed Quad running from near the same location as 1 to the bottom of lift 4. Modifications to terrain around Jacques creek may be needed.
3. This lift would be a 1.37 mile High Speed Quad running from near the top of Lumberjack. Again modifications to terrain around Jacques Creek may be needed.
4. This lift would be a 1.08 mile Fixed Grip Triple, Quad or a High Speed Quad running from the top of lift 2 to the top of the bowl shown. This could be exposed though so that’s why I suggested a Fixed triple or Quad. If it was a quad I would put a loading carpet on it to let it run a little bit faster because of length.
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Map link is fixed
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What kind of runs to you think those would be? Blues? Blacks?
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Many of them would be unskiable as drawn. The area below Union Meadows and above L-lift is basically flat, with a small (less than 100′ vertical) steep drop into Jacque Creek. Many of the runs in this area, as drawn, would be flattish down to the creek then faced with that gully. The stuff off the lift listed as ‘1’ is already part of Union Meadows, so they’re black tree runs. Getting to them from the top of the lift he’s got here would be a difficult traverse across windblown tundra though. The west wall (east-facing) part of the basin would most likely be blues, from what I’ve seen hiking out there. Really the only lift in this map that would work is the one called ‘4’.
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Anyone confused on Coppers website? Some of the lifts say they will be closed for the season for some reason.
https://www.coppercolorado.com/the-mountain/trail-lift-info/winter-trail-report
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That’s left over from last spring. I’ll get in touch with whoever maintains the site. Thanks for pointing this out!
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Rough morning for lift ops at Copper today. Super Bee/Resolution/Storm King are down and Excelerator/American Eagle were both stop & go on generator power. Just my luck for mechanical issues to follow me wherever I ski, I thought it was just Stevens Pass maintenance issues :)
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You mean rough morning for us :) Lost a phase at the top of the rock, ran B and E on diesel for a bit and kept A-1 and M closed until repairs could be made. Eagle was never on generator. Worst part was the dispatch office is in PHQ which also lost power, knocking out one of the radio repeaters. Hard to catch lift issues when you can’t hear half the radio transmissions.
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One of the old heron poma lifts that was up here https://mountainscholar.org/bitstream/handle/11124/8460/R1261.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
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That was the original ‘G Lift’.
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Is it just me or would a lift from somewhere below top of solitude (like the intersection of coppertone and ez road) to the top of flyer really help the general flow of the mountain? I’ve just always felt that getting from the east half of the mountain to the west half is such a pain, as you basically either have to go up the t bar, go on the sketchy and annoying lower enchanted traverse, or deal with going all the way down and up flyer. Also, I feel like it would help take a lot of the strain off of flyer as eagle never gets a line from my experience, and people could instead take up eagle and that lift. Thoughts?
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Funny you should mention that because a lift like you describe is in one of Copper’s Master Deveiopment Plans. They have a lift that starts near the crossing of Coppertone and Carefree and has a top terminal above the American Eagle top terminal. That MDP is from 2011. Some of the other lifts they proposed back then have come to pass, they include making the Eagle a 6 pack, upgrading the Kokomo lift and replacing the old Union Creek lift with the Woodward Express, installing the Celebrity Ridge t-bar and the Three Bears lift. What was also planned but not yet done are upgrading the Alpine lift, and relocating the upper terminal to near the junction of Collage and Copperopolis, and upgrading the Sierra and Lumberjack lifts to 4 packs. It also had planned on moving the lower terminal of the Excelerator lift to below the existing Solitude Station.
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I believe you are confusing eagle and flyer. I do remember there being a west to east lift in the master plan, but I think the eagle replacement (which wasn’t on the plan) was done instead of that; due to the low lines at eagle I don’t think another lift to solitude is necessary.
I was talking about an east to west lift, which is not currently planned (as far as I know) but one I have always wished for.
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What Argothor is referring to is N-lift, which is intended to supply round-trip laps on an already-partially-developed pod consisting of Bittersweet, the Cache Glades, and Lower Enchanted Forest as well as a couple runs that exist, pirate-style, but aren’t currently developed such as Fast Eddie’s and the Junkyard (which would lead into the existing Sail Away Glades). It would also serve as an additional west-to-east corridor, yes.
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I did confuse the Eagle with the Flyer, and yes the N-Lift was what I was referring to. Adding that lift would help relieve some of the congestion on the Eagle lift.
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It is possible to get from the east to the west side without using the American Flyer. You go down Bittersweet from Solitude Station, then take the green trail Leap Frog which diverges around where you meet Skid Road (the crossover from Coppertone to the East Village). That takes you over to Loverly, and from there, the West Village Traverse gets you to the West Village. Then you can take the Woodward Express and Timberline Express to get up to the top of the American Flyer.
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If you want to do it this way, you can actually go all the way to timberline from solitude (ez-road to minor matter); however, the line at timberline is usually much longer than flyer, and it is a lot of (mostly flat) traversing for a mountain that prides itself on not having much. I’ve done it once or twice, and it actually usually takes a good 5-10 minutes longer than the flyer method and is way less fun.
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One problem with the lift you suggest, there isn’t a lot of room for another top terminal near the top of the Flyer unless it is closer to the the ski patrol building which would limit you to mostly the front side runs.
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I actually realized that right after I posted this, and was wondering if there’s any safety/construction concerns with putting the terminal below/near the flyer lift line or crossing over/under and ending in between timberline and flyer, as there is some more space there. I feel like as long as you could get to the R/S lifts and timberline from it without too much traversing it would be very useful for all ability levels.
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Basically, I was thinking something like this: https://imgur.com/a/r7guDFz
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I agree going from east to west is not ideal. My suggestion would be to extend Rendezvous to the See & Ski and Coppertone intersection with a HSQ. Then make a more formal traverse near bottom of the Sierra lift that connects towards High Point so skiers can access Timberline.
This would also provide better lapping terrain for beginners on Rendezvous and easier access to Sierra / back bowls from the east. Storm King isn’t always open and going all the way down to Flyer isn’t ideal. I really try to avoid Flyer whenever possible.
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I agree with you that that is a great plan, but one thing I do worry about is the alignment of Rendezvous. I’m not sure you could go straight from see and ski
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Oops, sent this a bit early. As I was saying, I’m not sure the alignment from the intersection of coppertone and see & ski straight to the top of where r lift is now would be ideal, as a quick look on google maps makes it look like it goes right over enchanted forest. This could probably be doable, but I wonder if if just adding a whole new lift that ends in between r and s lift would work, and would come with the added benefit of quicker access to s lift. This would take away from your point about better lapping however.
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A lift from the See and Ski and Coppertone junction to the top of the Rendezvous lift would require one of two things. If it was straight lined it would have to go over a good portion of the Lower Enchanted Forest, likely pissing off people who like to ski that, or keep the original alignment for the older section and then cut through the trees that are in between Coppertone and High Point. If the second option was done would you put a half way station so people could get off at the current lower terminal of the Rendezvous?
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If you’re willing to make a midstation, you might as well make it angled so it can follow the current alignment (although with access to sierra from the midstation), change directions, and then follow Coppertone down to the base. It would probably be a bit more expensive than a straight, half midstation like on Village Express at Snowmass, but you also wouldn’t have to cut down any trees and it would be easier to get to from eagle.
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There is probably enough room for a fixed-grip terminal at the Highpoint/Coppertone split (what we call Five Signs). I’ve also thought this would be a good idea. You’d still have to take the road from Bittersweet, though, and your proposed bottom terminal location is in a wetland. Perhaps putting the bottom near CB-2 (Coppertone and B-road) would work.
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Thanks for this info! I like your idea on the location of the bottom terminal, but one thing I would worry about if the bottom terminal was placed there would be the length; a detachable lift would be fine but I imagine few people would find its use if it was a fixed grip half the length of flyer. Not to mention the complaints from all of the tourists saying how slow a new lift on the front side is.
Would it be possible to place a detach terminal a little higher, somewhere like here: https://imgur.com/a/gpaEiyS ? From this perspective it looks to me like you could just barely fit a terminal somewhere in that zone, but obviously I don’t know that area as well as you.
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Forgot to mention, I was also thinking this could be a good place to relocate timberline (if it’s still in good condition) if/when they replace it with a 6 pack, which would obviously require space for a detach.
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No, that would take up most of the existing run. For better or worse we’re stuck with the footprint we have, which was first outlined in ’85. It definitely limits what we can do high on the west side.
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Anyone else remember this?
Also they have some good shots of the lifts.
Rewind to 0:00
On Lumberjack (also rewind to 0:00):
Older:
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This Lift in Sweden used to have Bubbles just like American Eagle when it was new, Poma lift
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Some of the old heron pomas at copper
Base of the F lift in 1977 (notice that ford truck with the lift kit and offroad tires):
One of the lifts being constructed:
pbropetech could probably identify which lift it is based on location
I’m assuming this is the F lift because of the bubbles:
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Love these pictures, I did not know doubles could have bubles, are there any still in operation
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Idk about in north America, but im sure the are some in europe. They where fairly popular back in the day because there were no detachable lifts, so lifts rides where much longer and colder. Carlevaro-Savio installed quite a few of them. Especially at Mt snow. here are some photos:
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There where also some at Mtn. Creek, scroll down to former lifts and you will so the bubble borvig
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forgot to link it: http://www.chairlift.org/mtcreek.html
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There are a few detachle double bubbles in europe aswell:
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tsd2b-tower-nippon-cable-5824.html
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tsd2b-jast-garaventa-293.html
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tsd2b-capsule-ansaku-8548.html
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tsd2b-de-la-braye-garaventa-2454.html
This one even has a midstation with a double grooved bullwheel:
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tsd2b-cheselen-garaventa-292.html
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The one you tagged me in is the original F-lift, tower 19 or 20 (can’t quite tell, I’d have to hike the old line to see if there was another tower in the trees that I’m forgetting about).
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Also, great find on the ’77 base area photo. Love it. It appears we’ve cut down a lot of trees since then.
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