Top bullwheel with Doppelmayr skin.Fixed top bullwheel.It’s a regular Thiokol bullwheel under the cover.View down the line.Upper lift line.Lower lift line.Bottom terminal with Doppelmayr skin.Tower 13.Drive-tension station.Towers 1-2.
The chairs that go back around the top bullwheel sometimes crash into the side of the cover right when going back downhill(Where the red circle is https://prnt.sc/kxla87). Just right before the chair leaves the enclosure. Usually improper unloading or high winds cause this its bound to happen and its not rare. They had to slow/stop the lift because of it. The cover is somewhat deformed from the damage. Ive seen all of this happen last season waiting for friends at the top of the lift. Hopefully the maintenance team fixes it along with the heavy maintenance of porky and becker this summer.
How I miss skiing this lift. Back in the day before any of the Gondolas or detatchables, MB offered (and in many ways still does) the best and most challenging terrain on the mountain. I need to get back there before they upgrade or remove this lift. (sooner or later)
Between Middle Bowl and Porcupine, I think Middle Bowl’s the more likely of the two to get replaced with a high speed quad in the near future, since it’s slightly older and services more intermediate terrain than Porcupine.
At the very least, it should get outfitted with bars.
It would make sense to replace this lift as it serves a large amount of popular terrain at higher altitude and prevents traffic from going down a congested funnel to the base area. The Thiokol sheave assemblies on this lift are not aging well, the last time I road it I was amazed how much y adjustment had been used to keep the rope alignment. I am would bet they would replace this lift with a 6pack instead of upgrading any part of this lift. I agree Porcupine is not a priority as it serves much less terrain and it is in very good condition.
I think 3000 pph is a little overkill for Middle Bowl. I agree that it could use a good capacity boost, but I would start with 2500 pph and increase the capacity to 3000 if needed.
It is the only lift at Snowbasin without bars. This lift goes over a kind of large canyon near the top and I guess people don’t feel safe because of that. It doesn’t really bother me that much, but I know people who won’t ride Middle Bowl because the lift doesn’t have bars.
I can attest to the fact about not feeling safe on this lift. Last winter I was riding this lift alone, and it was windy, and the lift stopped right as I was crossing over the large canyon span. The lift was bouncing around, and I remember freaking out a little, thinking about getting stuck right there and having to be rescued. Fortunately the lift started up again, but I vowed never to ride this lift again. I probably will, of course, but would I love for this lift to go high speed detachable (with safety bar!).
Hate to burst your bubble, but not everyone feels comfortable on lifts that don’t have bars. In fact, more often than not these days, a number of resorts are outfitting bars onto lifts that haven’t had them for years if at all.
Its not just a safety thing, its nice to put ur feet on a bar after you get done with a hard run of skiing. Especially as you get older you know what I mean. middle bowl is a relatively long lift.
Brian- I rode this lift many times in the 80s and experienced what you did as well, scary as heck! But fun none the less. I would imagine that they replace the sheaves on a schedule so perhaps a new rope and sheaves are in order soon. I don’t recall the last time they replaced the rope. I do remember that this lift would hum along quite nicely and quietly and didn’t have the noisy squeaky sheaves that were common on the previous Wildcat, but again, it must be an age thing. I did enjoy the ocassional “squeaky! squeaky! squeaky!” sounds on wildcat. Compared to Yan or Riblet, the CTEC/Thiokol sheaves did seem a bit more squeaky on their older lifts vs later generation, but i really like the spoke design of the Thiokol/CTEC.
I only ground public skis here for two years, so my experience is limited a bit, but upgrading this chair’s capacity might not be necessary or good. The area it serves isn’t that big. Also, Steven or Uncle Ross might be willing to spend the money to move earth, but it’d take some shuffling about to fit a detach terminal here. A nice AlpenStar bottom drive and simple fixed return seems a fitting modernisation, at least to this crotchety Sámi. More like Sundown at PowMow and less like the new Wildcat.
If this becomes a detachable, they would have to build it on a different alignment due to the restaurant being in the way. In fact, I’m certain Middle Bowl would go detachable if the Strawberry supplementary high speed quad ever gets built.
I think it should go detachable even earlier. With the Cottonwoods becoming more crowded, more people are driving up to Snowbasin and making the lower mountain runs, like Bear Hollow, more crowded. It doesn’t help that all the beginner runs that are off Becker and Wildcat feed into Bear Hollow. With how slow this lift runs combined with more people skiing the Basin, people would rather wait in line at Needles than ride Middle Bowl. I think Snowbasin should run this lift at a faster speed (sorry, 300 fpm doesn’t quite do it). Is the drive original from 1979, or did it get replaced in 1998?
They could fit a detachable terminal at the top if they really wanted to. Its just real windy at the top especially with the wind coming right off the roof of the lodge. If they alter the top station to somewhere else they need to have it close to the lodge. Not everyone likes to ride the gondola on a busy Saturday. you need some sort of access to the lodge from middle bowl. even a short surface lift to access the lodge if you want to get creative.
I was thinking of extending it to the bottom of the Cirque, but a little higher than the lodge so there doesn’t have to be a surface lift to get to the lodge. Upper Sweet Revenge is congested enough, it doesn’t need any more obstructions. Middle Bowl’s bottom station should be extended lower for easier access from Wildcat. A six pack should do just fine in the wind with heavier chairs, but with a slightly higher capacity than before. I was thinking 2400 pph, the same as Wildcat. I ski on Sundays, so I can’t relate to the crowds on Needles on Saturdays.
I was thinking that alignment 1 makes more sense in that it ends low enough for access, but not too low that it creates a larger bottleneck in Bear Hollow.
It’s essentially the same drive station since new. Save for the cladding that got added in 98. It may have had a new motor at one point. It’s been well taken care of. I’m a bit surprised they didn’t add hydraulic tensioning to it back in 98 like they did to the old Littlecat. But the good old counterweight still works great I suppose. I recall it being out of service for a month or two back in 89/90 due to some sort of issue with the drive station, but other than that it’s been a great lift for late season skiing. The terrain it serves is awesome.
I know what 500 fpm feels like and it rarely runs that fast anymore. I’ve seen it run 500 fpm before when the lines are long on Needles. Wind is a common problem on this lift and that’s probably why it only runs at 400-450 fpm. I agree that the terrain off this lift nice.
“It was a three-person lift that was almost 50 years old,” Snowbasin spokesman Michael Rueckert said about the Middle Bowl triple-chair. “It’s being replaced with the Middle Bowl Express. That capacity will double from three to six, and the ride time will shorten from 12 minutes to under six minutes.”
They also claim that capacity will be doubled, which is simply not true. Basin announced that the max capacity would be at 2400, not 3600. We are seeing the common misconception of the larger carrier being higher capacity, which isn’t always the case.
Lift Blog 
Are you sure this isn’t Thiokol? It says CTEC on the spreadsheet…
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I’m sure.
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Wait, where is that list from???
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Garaventa CTEC.
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I can’t find it.
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CTEC bought Thiokol and used the same components until they came out with another design of their own.
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Were did you find the history I never could find the history page on the Doppelmayr
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The chairs that go back around the top bullwheel sometimes crash into the side of the cover right when going back downhill(Where the red circle is https://prnt.sc/kxla87). Just right before the chair leaves the enclosure. Usually improper unloading or high winds cause this its bound to happen and its not rare. They had to slow/stop the lift because of it. The cover is somewhat deformed from the damage. Ive seen all of this happen last season waiting for friends at the top of the lift. Hopefully the maintenance team fixes it along with the heavy maintenance of porky and becker this summer.
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How I miss skiing this lift. Back in the day before any of the Gondolas or detatchables, MB offered (and in many ways still does) the best and most challenging terrain on the mountain. I need to get back there before they upgrade or remove this lift. (sooner or later)
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Between Middle Bowl and Porcupine, I think Middle Bowl’s the more likely of the two to get replaced with a high speed quad in the near future, since it’s slightly older and services more intermediate terrain than Porcupine.
At the very least, it should get outfitted with bars.
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It would make sense to replace this lift as it serves a large amount of popular terrain at higher altitude and prevents traffic from going down a congested funnel to the base area. The Thiokol sheave assemblies on this lift are not aging well, the last time I road it I was amazed how much y adjustment had been used to keep the rope alignment. I am would bet they would replace this lift with a 6pack instead of upgrading any part of this lift. I agree Porcupine is not a priority as it serves much less terrain and it is in very good condition.
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I could see a six pack with 3,000 pph and slatted backrests (though 3,000 pph maybe a bit overbuilt) if wind is a concern in Middle Bowl.
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I think 3000 pph is a little overkill for Middle Bowl. I agree that it could use a good capacity boost, but I would start with 2500 pph and increase the capacity to 3000 if needed.
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Middle Bowl won’t get back slats because the new lift will be Leitner-Poma.
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Why should it be outfitted with bars?
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It is the only lift at Snowbasin without bars. This lift goes over a kind of large canyon near the top and I guess people don’t feel safe because of that. It doesn’t really bother me that much, but I know people who won’t ride Middle Bowl because the lift doesn’t have bars.
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I can attest to the fact about not feeling safe on this lift. Last winter I was riding this lift alone, and it was windy, and the lift stopped right as I was crossing over the large canyon span. The lift was bouncing around, and I remember freaking out a little, thinking about getting stuck right there and having to be rescued. Fortunately the lift started up again, but I vowed never to ride this lift again. I probably will, of course, but would I love for this lift to go high speed detachable (with safety bar!).
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It shouldn’t. People need to quit bein fluffy.
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Hate to burst your bubble, but not everyone feels comfortable on lifts that don’t have bars. In fact, more often than not these days, a number of resorts are outfitting bars onto lifts that haven’t had them for years if at all.
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Its not just a safety thing, its nice to put ur feet on a bar after you get done with a hard run of skiing. Especially as you get older you know what I mean. middle bowl is a relatively long lift.
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Brian- I rode this lift many times in the 80s and experienced what you did as well, scary as heck! But fun none the less. I would imagine that they replace the sheaves on a schedule so perhaps a new rope and sheaves are in order soon. I don’t recall the last time they replaced the rope. I do remember that this lift would hum along quite nicely and quietly and didn’t have the noisy squeaky sheaves that were common on the previous Wildcat, but again, it must be an age thing. I did enjoy the ocassional “squeaky! squeaky! squeaky!” sounds on wildcat. Compared to Yan or Riblet, the CTEC/Thiokol sheaves did seem a bit more squeaky on their older lifts vs later generation, but i really like the spoke design of the Thiokol/CTEC.
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I only ground public skis here for two years, so my experience is limited a bit, but upgrading this chair’s capacity might not be necessary or good. The area it serves isn’t that big. Also, Steven or Uncle Ross might be willing to spend the money to move earth, but it’d take some shuffling about to fit a detach terminal here. A nice AlpenStar bottom drive and simple fixed return seems a fitting modernisation, at least to this crotchety Sámi. More like Sundown at PowMow and less like the new Wildcat.
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If this becomes a detachable, they would have to build it on a different alignment due to the restaurant being in the way. In fact, I’m certain Middle Bowl would go detachable if the Strawberry supplementary high speed quad ever gets built.
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I think it should go detachable even earlier. With the Cottonwoods becoming more crowded, more people are driving up to Snowbasin and making the lower mountain runs, like Bear Hollow, more crowded. It doesn’t help that all the beginner runs that are off Becker and Wildcat feed into Bear Hollow. With how slow this lift runs combined with more people skiing the Basin, people would rather wait in line at Needles than ride Middle Bowl. I think Snowbasin should run this lift at a faster speed (sorry, 300 fpm doesn’t quite do it). Is the drive original from 1979, or did it get replaced in 1998?
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They could fit a detachable terminal at the top if they really wanted to. Its just real windy at the top especially with the wind coming right off the roof of the lodge. If they alter the top station to somewhere else they need to have it close to the lodge. Not everyone likes to ride the gondola on a busy Saturday. you need some sort of access to the lodge from middle bowl. even a short surface lift to access the lodge if you want to get creative.
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I was thinking of extending it to the bottom of the Cirque, but a little higher than the lodge so there doesn’t have to be a surface lift to get to the lodge. Upper Sweet Revenge is congested enough, it doesn’t need any more obstructions. Middle Bowl’s bottom station should be extended lower for easier access from Wildcat. A six pack should do just fine in the wind with heavier chairs, but with a slightly higher capacity than before. I was thinking 2400 pph, the same as Wildcat. I ski on Sundays, so I can’t relate to the crowds on Needles on Saturdays.
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So one of these general alignments?
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I was thinking that alignment 1 makes more sense in that it ends low enough for access, but not too low that it creates a larger bottleneck in Bear Hollow.
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Since when did it run at 300FPM? This thing ran 500 FPM every time I rode it unless the winds were strong, THEN it would likely slow down.
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It’s essentially the same drive station since new. Save for the cladding that got added in 98. It may have had a new motor at one point. It’s been well taken care of. I’m a bit surprised they didn’t add hydraulic tensioning to it back in 98 like they did to the old Littlecat. But the good old counterweight still works great I suppose. I recall it being out of service for a month or two back in 89/90 due to some sort of issue with the drive station, but other than that it’s been a great lift for late season skiing. The terrain it serves is awesome.
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I know what 500 fpm feels like and it rarely runs that fast anymore. I’ve seen it run 500 fpm before when the lines are long on Needles. Wind is a common problem on this lift and that’s probably why it only runs at 400-450 fpm. I agree that the terrain off this lift nice.
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R.I.P.
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For all of you who did not get a chair they sold off with in a hour I did not get a chair but got some lift parts instead
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Ha. They claim that this lift was nearly 50 years old. A bit off I’d say. It was installed in 1979.
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/despite-pandemic-utah-ski-resorts-looking-to-build-on-record-breaking-season
“It was a three-person lift that was almost 50 years old,” Snowbasin spokesman Michael Rueckert said about the Middle Bowl triple-chair. “It’s being replaced with the Middle Bowl Express. That capacity will double from three to six, and the ride time will shorten from 12 minutes to under six minutes.”
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They also claim that capacity will be doubled, which is simply not true. Basin announced that the max capacity would be at 2400, not 3600. We are seeing the common misconception of the larger carrier being higher capacity, which isn’t always the case.
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The capacity (per carrier) will double, from 3 to 6. It’s just not the capacity (per hour) that’s doubling.
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https://youtu.be/IOnOqHWCDu8 video of the old ski lift.
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Here’s a good one I got as well in 2020
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A video of the original chairlift as well
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