Midstation from Canyons Village.Bottom terminal in summer.Another view of the bottom.Tower 13.Top terminal at Red Pine Lodge.Downhill side of the top station.Drive station.“Poma-bus” evacuation system.Looking down towards the angle station.Angle station with no loading or unloading.Angle station from above.Another view of the mid-station.Bottom terminal departure side.Lift line over a large canyon.Loading area and cabin parking rail.This lift received new Sigma Diamond 8 cabins in spring 2023.Door side of a new cabin.The new carriers utilize existing grips.Loading area with new cabins.New cabins at tower 8.The view at tower 12.A Sigma cabin over the namesake canyon.Top terminal with new carriers.An upgraded cabin in the drive station.
The bottom terminal used to be located where Orange Bubble starts now, with no angle station. ASC wanted people to have to walk through Canyons Village shopping and dining on their way to and from the Cabriolet. When Talisker took over and added Orange Bubble, they moved the base terminal to where it is now and added the angle station.
There is 2 reasons why they have down hill loading. There beginner lift (High Meadow) and the conveyer belt is at the top of red pine gondola. Yes its also used for sightseeing.
This lift sure makes a loud racket while riding under depression towers. When I rode it the whole cabin was covered in snow. I could not see anything out of the windows. Older Leitner poma lifts make a loud sheave wheel racket.
The springs on TB-41 and Double TB-41 grips like this lift have always rattle when going through depression towers. The springs are one inside of the other and hit each other. The Omega and LPA grips have the springs separate to eliminate this.
This lift is from 1997, so Park City can probably get another 10 to 15 years out of it. There is no shortage of parts either because Leitner-Poma can still supply parts for it. The irritating noise is just because of the larger Double TB series grips. There are two Poma gondolas of the same model (Competition Gondola terminals, Double TB series grips, and CWA Omega 8 passenger cabins) at Killington, VT, both of which I rode recently, and they are very loud when passing under depression sheaves and through combination assemblies as well. Nothing to be concerned about.
Don’t forget the Bridger Gondola at Jackson Hole for another mechanically similar gondola. The two Skyeship stages at Killington are the oldest, but have the fewest hours since they only run from late December to early April and don’t run in the summer. K1 probably has the highest hours since it has always run in the summer and is the first lift to open for the season and the second to last to close. Also, note that K1 and Red Pine have the 3 leg terminals while Bridger and Skyeship have the 5 leg terminals. The three leg terminals are shorter so the lifts with them can only go 1000 fpm while the ones with the 5 leg terminals can go 1200.
Yes, it can, but the Orange Bubble usually has no line when the gondola has a line that goes outside the mazes. It’s an easy way to tell who’s a local and who’s not.
Did the old flight of the canyons gondola have dual tensioning? If not I think the top terminal is original. The angle station and bottom terminal are newer.
For those who dont know the bottom station was relocated and the mid station was added so the whole gondola didn’t have to be relocated. Making way for Orange bubble.
This lift and Killington’s K1 Express Gondola are top drive and bottom tension. Gondolas almost always have tensioning at the return and an internal tension carriage. The entire terminal can’t move like on most Poma detachable chairlifts because you’d need a moving platform too.
Nooo I know detachable chairlifts/gondolas the whole terminal does not move. Im talking about the huge tensioning ram that move the bullwheel along a rail carriage inside of the station. Im wondering if the old flight of the canyons gondola had dual tensioning. So a tensioning carriage in both end stations. Because the midstation has a leitner poma logo because the mid station is not original and this gondola has dual tensioning.
On the K1 gondola, the bullwheel sticks out the bottom of the terminal so there is most definitely not dual tensioning. Maybe it’s different on Red Pine. I don’t believe Poma ever used dual tensioning on lifts that have an internal tension carriage as the travel space is much greater than when the whole terminal moves.
Doppelmayr uses dual tensioning on longer lifts, but it’s difficult to tell which ones.
The bottom terminal is original and was relocated to where it is now. The midstation was built new in 2010 (making it likely the only Challenger terminal with a Leitner-Poma logo on it, and the last one ever built). The towers from the bottom to the midstation are numbered A-C and the rest of the line wasn’t renumbered. This must be the shortest detachable segment anywhere in the world. And yes, someone has to sit in the operator shack at the midstation all day, which doesn’t have door opening rails or a load platform.
In 2010, they missed their opening date because both ways up the mountain, the gondola and the bubble chair, weren’t finished yet, leading to some angry passholders. They bit off more than they could chew that summer with the bubble chair and Iron Mountain in the first year of Talisker ownership.
Old timers may remember there were tower signs saying “Welcome to The Canyons” and “WOW!” as you reach the gorge. The cabins were originally painted all different patterns like the K-1 at Killington. Vail repainted them orange and removed the signs, although there is still a plaque inside each one describing the artwork that used to be on the outside. They are still orange, as is the bottom terminal. I think Vail added the grip maintenance building too mid-life.
“The midstation was built new in 2010 (making it likely the only Challenger terminal with a Leitner-Poma logo on it, and the last one ever built).”
The top terminal of the Flat Top Flyer at Powderhorn has a new Leitner-Poma Challenger terminal, to match the other terminal that came from Marble Mountain. That lift was constructed in 2015, thus making it the newest challenger terminal. Also, it has the LP logo on it.
Why do you think that ? TGV bottom station has burned, but not the top station. THe top station has even the old blue that was on all Tremblant lifts before. Like Duncan Express.
Yes, but the top terminal is still the same. It didn’t burned and it has the old coor sheam. THe bottom station was burned, so maybe there are parts that survived to the fire that they reused to the new lift. But It’s not coming frop the top of TGV.
No, it’s not. You’re correct there. TGV is a bottom drive. Flat Top Flyer is a top drive. The terminals match in that regard. Engineers can mix and match based upon the needs of the customer.
In case something goes wrong with the attaching/detaching to the rope. To my knowledge, there has to be an operator on every lift anywhere passengers load or unload and wherever the grip detaches/attaches to the rope.
It’s one of the only poma lifts in Utah. This and Supreme at Alta are the only Poma/LP chairs that were installed in Utah after 1985.
Yan, Garaventa CTEC (and latter dopp) had/have a chokehold on the Utah lift market. Yan has been out of business for 25 years but it’ll be a long time before there’s more pomas in Utah than Yans.
I would argue for their replacement with level walk-in cabins instead, or at least new units from Sigma or CWA with spring mountings to reduce noise and discomfort over sheave trains.
Doppelmayr didn’t buy CWA until 2002. CWA made cabins for everyone until then. As a result you can find CWAs on a lot of older Poma gondolas (Stowe is another example).
Utah Lost Ski Area ProjectOctober 16, 2021 / 4:43 pm
Even with Doppelmayr owning CWA, there have been CWA cabins on Pomas as recent as 2008. CWA as a whole doesn’t like to think they’re a part of Doppelmayr, despite being owned by them.
Holy crap the new gondola cabins can’t come soon enough. I made it up there for the first time this season and couldn’t believe the state of this lift. At least 1/3 of the cabins are out of service, but probably closer to 2/5. They’re just uselessly spinning around the line, with the doors cracked open or mostly open with bungee cords across the opening, with sad signs stuck in the ski racks saying the cabin is out of service. While in line I counted 4 in a row that were out of service at one point. And then the lift stopped because one of the operating ones got hung up in the door opening rail. 2 mechanics climbed on top of the cabin and worked on it for about 10 min, before eventually disassembling the opening mechanism and taking that one out of service too.
Hopefully they also fix all the broken windows and strip the flaking paint and repaint it. It’s easily the worst looking lift at Park City right now.
They still help with weight balance and there’s not a good place to store them. It’s actually not the worst-looking…Silverlode and Payday both have terminal rust around the windows, Silverlode has a window which is completely missing, and Payday’s tower heads have looked like a car that got too close to a snowplow and got hit with grit since before Vail took over. Not to mention Tombstone has two different color schemes, and Bonanza and 9990 have had major paint wear due to wind.
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Why the angle station? I looked on google earth and there appears to be no obstruction to prevent it running strait. Does anyone know why this is?
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The bottom terminal used to be located where Orange Bubble starts now, with no angle station. ASC wanted people to have to walk through Canyons Village shopping and dining on their way to and from the Cabriolet. When Talisker took over and added Orange Bubble, they moved the base terminal to where it is now and added the angle station.
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Ohhhh…. Thanks i was really curious!
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during the winter months, can you ride it up and back down? basically just for sightseeing?
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I believe so. Red Pine Lodge is at the top.
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There is 2 reasons why they have down hill loading. There beginner lift (High Meadow) and the conveyer belt is at the top of red pine gondola. Yes its also used for sightseeing.
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This lift sure makes a loud racket while riding under depression towers. When I rode it the whole cabin was covered in snow. I could not see anything out of the windows. Older Leitner poma lifts make a loud sheave wheel racket.
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The springs on TB-41 and Double TB-41 grips like this lift have always rattle when going through depression towers. The springs are one inside of the other and hit each other. The Omega and LPA grips have the springs separate to eliminate this.
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Vibration is so bad that kids skis will fall off. Short skis come inside the cabin
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The lift looks very old and is very loud. Is it planned to be replaced?
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This lift is from 1997, so Park City can probably get another 10 to 15 years out of it. There is no shortage of parts either because Leitner-Poma can still supply parts for it. The irritating noise is just because of the larger Double TB series grips. There are two Poma gondolas of the same model (Competition Gondola terminals, Double TB series grips, and CWA Omega 8 passenger cabins) at Killington, VT, both of which I rode recently, and they are very loud when passing under depression sheaves and through combination assemblies as well. Nothing to be concerned about.
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I rode this lift and holy cow its loud! Going over just support sheaves is loud! Hold down sheaves is just worse!
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Don’t forget the Bridger Gondola at Jackson Hole for another mechanically similar gondola. The two Skyeship stages at Killington are the oldest, but have the fewest hours since they only run from late December to early April and don’t run in the summer. K1 probably has the highest hours since it has always run in the summer and is the first lift to open for the season and the second to last to close. Also, note that K1 and Red Pine have the 3 leg terminals while Bridger and Skyeship have the 5 leg terminals. The three leg terminals are shorter so the lifts with them can only go 1000 fpm while the ones with the 5 leg terminals can go 1200.
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Yes but it can get long lines
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Yes, it can, but the Orange Bubble usually has no line when the gondola has a line that goes outside the mazes. It’s an easy way to tell who’s a local and who’s not.
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How does the ‘Poma Bus’ evacuation system work? I can see that it has a platform of some kind but can’t figure out what else it does.
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Did the old flight of the canyons gondola have dual tensioning? If not I think the top terminal is original. The angle station and bottom terminal are newer.
For those who dont know the bottom station was relocated and the mid station was added so the whole gondola didn’t have to be relocated. Making way for Orange bubble.
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This lift and Killington’s K1 Express Gondola are top drive and bottom tension. Gondolas almost always have tensioning at the return and an internal tension carriage. The entire terminal can’t move like on most Poma detachable chairlifts because you’d need a moving platform too.
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Nooo I know detachable chairlifts/gondolas the whole terminal does not move. Im talking about the huge tensioning ram that move the bullwheel along a rail carriage inside of the station. Im wondering if the old flight of the canyons gondola had dual tensioning. So a tensioning carriage in both end stations. Because the midstation has a leitner poma logo because the mid station is not original and this gondola has dual tensioning.
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On the K1 gondola, the bullwheel sticks out the bottom of the terminal so there is most definitely not dual tensioning. Maybe it’s different on Red Pine. I don’t believe Poma ever used dual tensioning on lifts that have an internal tension carriage as the travel space is much greater than when the whole terminal moves.
Doppelmayr uses dual tensioning on longer lifts, but it’s difficult to tell which ones.
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Leitner-Poma’s LPA high speed lifts are dual tension.
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Not all. Neither of ours are.
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LPA terminals come in a few different sizes.
Small – detachable quads up to 1100 fpm, 15 full windows, dual tensioning (entire terminal moves):
Medium – detachable six-packs (only seen up to 1000 fpm as of 2019), 17 full windows, dual tensioning (entire terminal moves):
Large – detachable six-packs (all bubble chairs as of 2019, only seen up to 1000 fpm as of 2019), 19 full windows, tensioning only at return terminal:
XL – detachable gondolas and telemix up to 1100 fpm, 26 full windows, tensioning only at return terminal:
XXL – detachable gondolas and telemix up to 1200 fpm, 30 full windows, tensioning only at return terminal:
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Is the parking near the bottom of Red Pine Gondola avail to the public (pay)?
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Yes.
https://assets.vailresorts.com/-/media/park-city/products/brochure/explore-the-resort/about-the-resort/getting-here/canyons-village-parkingmap_v1—john-park.ashx?la=en
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The bottom terminal is original and was relocated to where it is now. The midstation was built new in 2010 (making it likely the only Challenger terminal with a Leitner-Poma logo on it, and the last one ever built). The towers from the bottom to the midstation are numbered A-C and the rest of the line wasn’t renumbered. This must be the shortest detachable segment anywhere in the world. And yes, someone has to sit in the operator shack at the midstation all day, which doesn’t have door opening rails or a load platform.
In 2010, they missed their opening date because both ways up the mountain, the gondola and the bubble chair, weren’t finished yet, leading to some angry passholders. They bit off more than they could chew that summer with the bubble chair and Iron Mountain in the first year of Talisker ownership.
Old timers may remember there were tower signs saying “Welcome to The Canyons” and “WOW!” as you reach the gorge. The cabins were originally painted all different patterns like the K-1 at Killington. Vail repainted them orange and removed the signs, although there is still a plaque inside each one describing the artwork that used to be on the outside. They are still orange, as is the bottom terminal. I think Vail added the grip maintenance building too mid-life.
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The bottom terminal was painted red recently. This lift has had a lot of color schemes over the years.
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Also I believe that the Flat Top Flyer at Powderhorn has the newer L-P logo because it was a refurbished installation.
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“The midstation was built new in 2010 (making it likely the only Challenger terminal with a Leitner-Poma logo on it, and the last one ever built).”
The top terminal of the Flat Top Flyer at Powderhorn has a new Leitner-Poma Challenger terminal, to match the other terminal that came from Marble Mountain. That lift was constructed in 2015, thus making it the newest challenger terminal. Also, it has the LP logo on it.
https://skiliftblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/img_8741.jpg?w=994&h=746
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Not new. I believe the top came from the TGV at Tremblant.
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Why do you think that ? TGV bottom station has burned, but not the top station. THe top station has even the old blue that was on all Tremblant lifts before. Like Duncan Express.
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I heard through the industry grapevine that the burned terminals from both Marble and Tremblant were refurbished for use at Powderhorn.
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Yes, but the top terminal is still the same. It didn’t burned and it has the old coor sheam. THe bottom station was burned, so maybe there are parts that survived to the fire that they reused to the new lift. But It’s not coming frop the top of TGV.
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No, it’s not. You’re correct there. TGV is a bottom drive. Flat Top Flyer is a top drive. The terminals match in that regard. Engineers can mix and match based upon the needs of the customer.
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The orange was done post-ASC and pre-Vail.
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Why does there have to be an operator in the turn station if the cabin doors don’t open?
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In case something goes wrong with the attaching/detaching to the rope. To my knowledge, there has to be an operator on every lift anywhere passengers load or unload and wherever the grip detaches/attaches to the rope.
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This is pretty much the only Poma lift of any kind in Park City, everything else detachable at PCMR and Deer Valley being Doppelmayr / Garaventa-CTEC.
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Before 2006 the Tombstone lift at Canyons was also a Poma
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It’s one of the only poma lifts in Utah. This and Supreme at Alta are the only Poma/LP chairs that were installed in Utah after 1985.
Yan, Garaventa CTEC (and latter dopp) had/have a chokehold on the Utah lift market. Yan has been out of business for 25 years but it’ll be a long time before there’s more pomas in Utah than Yans.
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This comment aged well, considering the moves LPA has been doing to gain traction in the Salt Lake area market.
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they really need to refurbish these gondola cabins
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I would argue for their replacement with level walk-in cabins instead, or at least new units from Sigma or CWA with spring mountings to reduce noise and discomfort over sheave trains.
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Thank goodness they’re getting replaced!
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Are those CWA cabins on a Leitner Poma? Nordic Valley also has a Leitner poma High Speed Six.
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Doppelmayr didn’t buy CWA until 2002. CWA made cabins for everyone until then. As a result you can find CWAs on a lot of older Poma gondolas (Stowe is another example).
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Even with Doppelmayr owning CWA, there have been CWA cabins on Pomas as recent as 2008. CWA as a whole doesn’t like to think they’re a part of Doppelmayr, despite being owned by them.
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Is there a double groove bullwheel in the midstation?
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I wonder if the newer cabins are going to be painted orange like the original ones
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It’s likely they will be silver, like Quicksilver, or red, since that’s Park City’s other brand color.
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Red.
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Holy crap the new gondola cabins can’t come soon enough. I made it up there for the first time this season and couldn’t believe the state of this lift. At least 1/3 of the cabins are out of service, but probably closer to 2/5. They’re just uselessly spinning around the line, with the doors cracked open or mostly open with bungee cords across the opening, with sad signs stuck in the ski racks saying the cabin is out of service. While in line I counted 4 in a row that were out of service at one point. And then the lift stopped because one of the operating ones got hung up in the door opening rail. 2 mechanics climbed on top of the cabin and worked on it for about 10 min, before eventually disassembling the opening mechanism and taking that one out of service too.
Hopefully they also fix all the broken windows and strip the flaking paint and repaint it. It’s easily the worst looking lift at Park City right now.
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They still help with weight balance and there’s not a good place to store them. It’s actually not the worst-looking…Silverlode and Payday both have terminal rust around the windows, Silverlode has a window which is completely missing, and Payday’s tower heads have looked like a car that got too close to a snowplow and got hit with grit since before Vail took over. Not to mention Tombstone has two different color schemes, and Bonanza and 9990 have had major paint wear due to wind.
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They might refresh the terminals when they add the new cabins
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If any of you think that this lift is weird, have a look at this one:
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tsd8-sallent-doppelmayr-1645.html
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The Disney Skyliner has that on the Epcot gondola.
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The new cabins look SO sharp. I’m very glad Vail Resorts got around to replacing them.
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Video of the gondola with the new cabins:
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