This six place Leitner-Poma detachable opened up new lift-served trails and glades for the 2023-24 season.Leitner-Poma LPA bottom station with drive and tensioning.The lower station sits close to the Outpost Gondola, making the expansion easy to access from Dercum Mountain or North Peak.Loading area.Hold down tower 1.Traditional AC motor.There are two Cummins diesel backups, one or both of which can turn the lift at varying speeds.Controls inside the bottom station.Lower station location.View riding up at tower 10.Leitner-Poma tower head.View back down the line with Breckenridge in the background.The entire upper half of the line is above tree line and the summit sits at 12,282 feet.Upper station with a view.A number of beginner and low intermediate runs take off from the Bergman Express.View from the top operator building.Six place chair and LPA grip.View from the top station.Return terminal turnaround.With no grid power at the summit, two alternators charge batteries for the low voltage controls.Top operator desk.Upper station overview.Side view of the summit station, just shy of the true summit.LPA station with wood under cover. Note the solar powered patrol hut.View down at tower 15.High alpine terrain.Middle section of the lift line.Upper lift line.Lower lift line in the trees.Tower 3.View up the middle part of the line.Loading area.Lift line overview.Riding up the line.View down at tower 4.Tower 9.Arriving at the summit.Another view of the summit.Above treeline section seen from the Outpost Gondola.
This is the third highest six pack in North America, Colorado, and Summit County altogether, behind only the Lenawee Express (12,455 feet) and the Kensho SuperChair (12,302 feet).
The most important thing that Bergman provides for Keystone is that the mountain now has above timberline terrain that is serviced by chairlift. Before this, the Outback Express was the highest lift on the mountain, and that offloads at 11,980 feet, just barely above timberline. I would consider this Keystone’s equivalent to Peak 6 to a degree, since it’s an expansion with intermediate bowl terrain. Though it’s not a perfect comparison since Bergman Bowl is low intermediate terrain with a very consistent pitch (notice that there’s only one combi on the lift, tower 4), while the blues off the Kensho SuperChair are a bit steeper, longer, and that lift has a somewhat more varied profile (six combi towers, two mid-line depression towers, no depression tower for tower 1).
On a random trivia note, this is the only high speed lift at Keystone with fewer than 100 chairs.
Are these now the lift serviced points that service terrain above 12,000 feet in North America? Not including lifts like Sierra at Copper or Gold Hill Express at Telluride that are below other higher lifts.
Imperial SuperChair – Breckenridge – 12,840’
Chair 9 – Loveland – 12,700’
Revelation – Telluride – 12,515’
The Cirque – Snowmass – 12,510’
Lenawee/Zuma – A Basin – 12,472’
Storm King – Copper – 12,441’
Three Bears – Copper – 12,421’
Kachina – Taos – 12,400’
Mountain Chief/Celebrity Ridge – Copper – 12,313’ (maybe a little less because it doesn’t reach the peak)
Kensho SuperChair – Breckenridge – 12,302’
Silverton Chairlift – Silverton – 12,300’ ?
Bergman Bowl Express – 12,282’
Panorama Express – Winter Park – 12,060’
If this is correct, only one is outside of Colorado. More of the lifts at Loveland could be above 12,000′, I just couldn’t find the elevation of the top terminals anywhere.
AFAIK, Colorado and New Mexico are the only two states (or provinces) with lift-served skiing above 12K feet. In part, this is because the Colorado section of the Rockies is the highest elevation (and home to the only 14er peaks in the range, depending on how you define ‘the Rockies’).
But it’s likely also climate. Controlling for altitude, the southern Rockies are an extremely mild climate. It is a very rare day when the freezing level drops below sea level in these states. If Colorado had land at sea level, it would almost never experience a frost. Excluding Hoedown Hill, the lowest elevation skiing in the state is at Steamboat (its northermost major resort), at 7000 feet.
Related to climate, “treeline” is higher in Colorado and New Mexico than almost anywhere else in the country. Treeline in Oregon or Maine is many thousands of feet lower down. Mount Hood would be forested at its summit if it was in Colorado. Sugarloaf Maine’s summit would be a desert with cacti.
Very few lifts seem to sit entirely above treeline in North America. The Palmer lift at Timberline comes to mind, and it doesn’t open mid-winter. Almost all of the Colorado/NM lifts that breach 12,000′ start beneath the shelter of trees. Even Imperial Superchair begins in a sheltered basin dotted with stunted trees. Above treeline terrain everywhere from A-Basin to Big Sky involves aggressive snow fencing, later opening dates, rock “sharks”, and a need to be very strategic about wind-loading and exposures (with northeastern faces faring best). Talus fields require a LOT more snow to open than runs coated in dirt and grass at lower elevations.
Yeah I really dislike when people talk about elevation like it has the same effect at different latitudes, or even just across different climate regions. You definitely can use elevation to compare places, but it’s usually only applicable in the immediate area, rarely being relevant when places are more than ~100 miles apart. Reno and Emigrant gap are both at 5000 feet and are 50 miles apart (mostly east-west), one is a desert and the other is a wet mountain region.
But what about 23 at Mammy? Entirely above treeline, from about 9,800′ to 11,000′. It also naturally catches winddrift meaning it was open last year with decent coverage when Mammoth had reported 20″ of natural snowfall total.
And it sits further south than every resort in CO other than Telluride and Purgatory.
Orographic lift/squeeze mechanics, rainshadows, and even valley/range orientation lining up with a flow that’s more or less moisture rich can drastically shift things like treeline and where the snow line sits. Continuing looking at Mammoth because it’s a good example, the desert starts in the Eastern Sierra at around 5,500′. In the White mountains 30 miles to the east, it’s around 7,000′ and in the western Sierra 30 miles the other way, 2,500-3,000′.
To the north of Mammoth is an even better sample size, albeit with less extreme elevation shifts. Sugar Bowl, Alpine Meadows and Kirkwood will often see similar temps and snowfall as Mammoth, even while being 150 miles north, due to similar geography and orientation to the Pacific moisture stream in the winter and monsoonal/random basin and range summer moisture. Heavenly sits very differently within the Tahoe basin vs the Sierra crest mountains, and usually gets around 25% less snow even with a higher summit.
From satellite imagery, I see pockets of trees on Mammoth Mountain up to within 200 vertical feet of the summit.
That said, it definitely seems like the southern/eastern Sierra has a lower treeline than the southern Rockies. From perusing the imagery surrounding Whitney and the Palisades (the 14er, not the ski resort), it looks like they peter out around 11,500′ or so. There are definitely a million reasons why certain aspects/elevations/microclimates/glaciated areas/poor soil areas may or may not have trees. Especially the further south and west you go in North America.
Except treeline isn’t that simple. At Mammoth, there is a gap in the Sierra in which it sits. Storms are colder specifically there, and treeline is pretty much 10,000. Individual trees can grow above treeline, especially in climates that might be harsh in winter but warmer/wetter in summer. There are actually a few random pines around 13,500′ on Whitney. And bristlecone creeps up to almost 14,000 on White mountain. My point being while elevation and latitude matter, it’s very far from linear. The basin and range as a whole has a wild range of tree/snow/arid desert elevations, and the Sierra has a pretty extreme rain and snow shadow that dictates it. The CO & northern NM Rockies sit in one climate zone that results in a fairly consistent snowpack and open bowls. In other places, that is much less the case and shouldn’t be generalized if you actually want to understand climate. Those “million reasons why” are sometimes the dominant factors in an entire region over a simple latitude vs elevation calculation.
Why is the Bergman Express logo on the bottom terminal but not the top? Also why does some of Keystones other LPA detachables not have their name on it?
The lift name isn’t printed on the terminals of either the Montezuma Express or the Peru Express.
Montezuma Express:
Peru Express:
I would say that Bergman’s deviation from this is so that one can identify the lift when approaching it from the Outpost. That’s really my best guess as to what the answer is. Still, it’s definitely an oddball given that Keystone normally doesn’t paint their lift names directly onto the lift terminals (with the other high speed six packs and quads, the closest you’ll get is the lift name being printed on the loading instructions sign right before you enter the loading area; or it’s on a sign attached to the lift operators’ shack / the lift’s maintenance shed).
Compare that to a place like Breckenridge, where older high speed quads and six packs have the lift name printed on a red sign attached to the lift terminal…
…while the LPA high speed quads and six packs have the lift name designed in metallic letters attached to the terminals (something Copper Mountain also does with the American Eagle and American Flyer).
I’m pretty sure that the Bergman express was marked in order to let beginners know it’s the lift they want so they don’t end up somewhere lost on North Peak.
I have no idea why Keystone didn’t mark Peru or Montezuma on their bottom terminals. Probably to save as much money as possible.
Its the same difference for both manufacturers. In the traditional style, the motor (AC or DC) is mounted horizontally and and drives through a gearbox with an input bevel stage to change the drive direction to vertical followed by a planetary stage(s) for the final gear reduction. With a direct drive, there is no gearbox, the motor is mounted with a vertical shaft connected directly to the bullwheel. The motor as a large diameter to help produce the large torque required. This is Doppelmayr’s brochure. Poma would be very similar.
Is the reason not to use a direct drive due to cost, on a lift like Bergman that will likely have limited operating hours? Installation cost vs. efficiency not worth it on a open late / close early lift? Or another technical reason not to use direct drive, for example here in a remote location?
Drive system choice is up to the customer. Right now direct drive is more expensive, and that is usually a big factor. Direct drives are quieter and you don’t have a gearbox to maintain. Also depends on your need for a back up. Bergman looks to have an auxiliary diesel drive, for a direct drive you need a generator instead. There can be environmental regulations around the storage of diesel fuel. Access is another factor. A direct drive is a single heavy unit, whereas traditional drive has a few lighter parts. Another factor now might be comfort level with a newer technology. Some areas may be waiting to see how the service life/reliability of the direct drive is before selecting that option.
It’s kind of sad seeing this if I’m honest… We used to hike to some fabulous powder in Bergy. It was accessible but not overrun, back bowl but not back country, secluded but just another run in the day. I’m not sure how to feel about it, maybe I’m just being a sentimental sap. Anyone else feel me?
You still have your powder stashes in Erickson and Independence Bowls. Bringing lift service to Bergman Bowl was long overdue, and moreover serves to better distribute skiers throughout the mountain (especially for intermediates, for whom there was a bit of a shortage of intermediate trails away from Dercum Mountain beyond Last Alamo and Prospector on North Peak, and a cluster of runs in the Outback). Along with giving Keystone chairlift service above timberline, which it had long lacked compared to the other Summit County ski areas which have way more extensive above-treeline lift networks (Copper has Three Bears, Sierra and Mountain Chief; Breck has the T-Bar, Kensho SuperChair and Imperial; A-Basin has Lenawee, Beavers and Zuma).
Understandable that you miss the powder laps, but this new lift is an amazing addition. Despite all odds, Bergman Bowl surprisingly has never been too crowded. It’s a great place to go if the rest of the mountain is flooded with vacationers. I was skiing at Keystone on a holiday, and while Santiago, Montezuma, and Peru all had mammoth lines, Bergman Express was never longer than 10 minutes. If you head up here during the spring time, while the rest of the mountain is turning the slush, the snow up here remains soft and buttery. The turns are fantastic!
Bregman Bowl was a great place to escape the crowds, and it’s sad to see it go, but this lift was game changing. There is still Independence and Erickson bowls, which are still isolated and full of powder!
Every time I want to complain about my local hill, I remind myself that a ten minute wait at my local hill is almost unheard of on any day not named Saturday, and that all I need to do is change tactics or lifts and the wait will be back down to a few minutes or less. Lastly, I will never understand anyone’s disdain for slush. It’s number two on the list of hash tag Objectively Best Skiings tee em behind supportive, recently thawed corn snow, ahead of number three, summer watermelon snirt. Day-old consolidated misses the podium at number four. Anyway, thanks for listening to my hash tag totally relevant ramblings.
Lift Blog 
This is the third highest six pack in North America, Colorado, and Summit County altogether, behind only the Lenawee Express (12,455 feet) and the Kensho SuperChair (12,302 feet).
The most important thing that Bergman provides for Keystone is that the mountain now has above timberline terrain that is serviced by chairlift. Before this, the Outback Express was the highest lift on the mountain, and that offloads at 11,980 feet, just barely above timberline. I would consider this Keystone’s equivalent to Peak 6 to a degree, since it’s an expansion with intermediate bowl terrain. Though it’s not a perfect comparison since Bergman Bowl is low intermediate terrain with a very consistent pitch (notice that there’s only one combi on the lift, tower 4), while the blues off the Kensho SuperChair are a bit steeper, longer, and that lift has a somewhat more varied profile (six combi towers, two mid-line depression towers, no depression tower for tower 1).
On a random trivia note, this is the only high speed lift at Keystone with fewer than 100 chairs.
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Are these now the lift serviced points that service terrain above 12,000 feet in North America? Not including lifts like Sierra at Copper or Gold Hill Express at Telluride that are below other higher lifts.
If this is correct, only one is outside of Colorado. More of the lifts at Loveland could be above 12,000′, I just couldn’t find the elevation of the top terminals anywhere.
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https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resorts/north-america/sorted/mountain-altitude/
Missed ski santa fe
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AFAIK, Colorado and New Mexico are the only two states (or provinces) with lift-served skiing above 12K feet. In part, this is because the Colorado section of the Rockies is the highest elevation (and home to the only 14er peaks in the range, depending on how you define ‘the Rockies’).
But it’s likely also climate. Controlling for altitude, the southern Rockies are an extremely mild climate. It is a very rare day when the freezing level drops below sea level in these states. If Colorado had land at sea level, it would almost never experience a frost. Excluding Hoedown Hill, the lowest elevation skiing in the state is at Steamboat (its northermost major resort), at 7000 feet.
Related to climate, “treeline” is higher in Colorado and New Mexico than almost anywhere else in the country. Treeline in Oregon or Maine is many thousands of feet lower down. Mount Hood would be forested at its summit if it was in Colorado. Sugarloaf Maine’s summit would be a desert with cacti.
Very few lifts seem to sit entirely above treeline in North America. The Palmer lift at Timberline comes to mind, and it doesn’t open mid-winter. Almost all of the Colorado/NM lifts that breach 12,000′ start beneath the shelter of trees. Even Imperial Superchair begins in a sheltered basin dotted with stunted trees. Above treeline terrain everywhere from A-Basin to Big Sky involves aggressive snow fencing, later opening dates, rock “sharks”, and a need to be very strategic about wind-loading and exposures (with northeastern faces faring best). Talus fields require a LOT more snow to open than runs coated in dirt and grass at lower elevations.
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Yeah I really dislike when people talk about elevation like it has the same effect at different latitudes, or even just across different climate regions. You definitely can use elevation to compare places, but it’s usually only applicable in the immediate area, rarely being relevant when places are more than ~100 miles apart. Reno and Emigrant gap are both at 5000 feet and are 50 miles apart (mostly east-west), one is a desert and the other is a wet mountain region.
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But what about 23 at Mammy? Entirely above treeline, from about 9,800′ to 11,000′. It also naturally catches winddrift meaning it was open last year with decent coverage when Mammoth had reported 20″ of natural snowfall total.
And it sits further south than every resort in CO other than Telluride and Purgatory.
Orographic lift/squeeze mechanics, rainshadows, and even valley/range orientation lining up with a flow that’s more or less moisture rich can drastically shift things like treeline and where the snow line sits. Continuing looking at Mammoth because it’s a good example, the desert starts in the Eastern Sierra at around 5,500′. In the White mountains 30 miles to the east, it’s around 7,000′ and in the western Sierra 30 miles the other way, 2,500-3,000′.
To the north of Mammoth is an even better sample size, albeit with less extreme elevation shifts. Sugar Bowl, Alpine Meadows and Kirkwood will often see similar temps and snowfall as Mammoth, even while being 150 miles north, due to similar geography and orientation to the Pacific moisture stream in the winter and monsoonal/random basin and range summer moisture. Heavenly sits very differently within the Tahoe basin vs the Sierra crest mountains, and usually gets around 25% less snow even with a higher summit.
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From satellite imagery, I see pockets of trees on Mammoth Mountain up to within 200 vertical feet of the summit.
That said, it definitely seems like the southern/eastern Sierra has a lower treeline than the southern Rockies. From perusing the imagery surrounding Whitney and the Palisades (the 14er, not the ski resort), it looks like they peter out around 11,500′ or so. There are definitely a million reasons why certain aspects/elevations/microclimates/glaciated areas/poor soil areas may or may not have trees. Especially the further south and west you go in North America.
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Except treeline isn’t that simple. At Mammoth, there is a gap in the Sierra in which it sits. Storms are colder specifically there, and treeline is pretty much 10,000. Individual trees can grow above treeline, especially in climates that might be harsh in winter but warmer/wetter in summer. There are actually a few random pines around 13,500′ on Whitney. And bristlecone creeps up to almost 14,000 on White mountain. My point being while elevation and latitude matter, it’s very far from linear. The basin and range as a whole has a wild range of tree/snow/arid desert elevations, and the Sierra has a pretty extreme rain and snow shadow that dictates it. The CO & northern NM Rockies sit in one climate zone that results in a fairly consistent snowpack and open bowls. In other places, that is much less the case and shouldn’t be generalized if you actually want to understand climate. Those “million reasons why” are sometimes the dominant factors in an entire region over a simple latitude vs elevation calculation.
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Why is the Bergman Express logo on the bottom terminal but not the top? Also why does some of Keystones other LPA detachables not have their name on it?
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The lift name isn’t printed on the terminals of either the Montezuma Express or the Peru Express.
Montezuma Express:
Peru Express:
I would say that Bergman’s deviation from this is so that one can identify the lift when approaching it from the Outpost. That’s really my best guess as to what the answer is. Still, it’s definitely an oddball given that Keystone normally doesn’t paint their lift names directly onto the lift terminals (with the other high speed six packs and quads, the closest you’ll get is the lift name being printed on the loading instructions sign right before you enter the loading area; or it’s on a sign attached to the lift operators’ shack / the lift’s maintenance shed).
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Compare that to a place like Breckenridge, where older high speed quads and six packs have the lift name printed on a red sign attached to the lift terminal…
…while the LPA high speed quads and six packs have the lift name designed in metallic letters attached to the terminals (something Copper Mountain also does with the American Eagle and American Flyer).
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Winter Park also uses the metallic letters.
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Winter Park’s lifts have the name painted onto the terminals.
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Keystone marks most of their lifts with red signs on the top terminals. I have no pictures, though :(
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I’m pretty sure that the Bergman express was marked in order to let beginners know it’s the lift they want so they don’t end up somewhere lost on North Peak.
I have no idea why Keystone didn’t mark Peru or Montezuma on their bottom terminals. Probably to save as much money as possible.
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What is the difference in a traditional ac motor and a direct drive for leitner-poma?
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Its the same difference for both manufacturers. In the traditional style, the motor (AC or DC) is mounted horizontally and and drives through a gearbox with an input bevel stage to change the drive direction to vertical followed by a planetary stage(s) for the final gear reduction. With a direct drive, there is no gearbox, the motor is mounted with a vertical shaft connected directly to the bullwheel. The motor as a large diameter to help produce the large torque required. This is Doppelmayr’s brochure. Poma would be very similar.
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/58165610/custom-drive-solutions-en
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Is the reason not to use a direct drive due to cost, on a lift like Bergman that will likely have limited operating hours? Installation cost vs. efficiency not worth it on a open late / close early lift? Or another technical reason not to use direct drive, for example here in a remote location?
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Drive system choice is up to the customer. Right now direct drive is more expensive, and that is usually a big factor. Direct drives are quieter and you don’t have a gearbox to maintain. Also depends on your need for a back up. Bergman looks to have an auxiliary diesel drive, for a direct drive you need a generator instead. There can be environmental regulations around the storage of diesel fuel. Access is another factor. A direct drive is a single heavy unit, whereas traditional drive has a few lighter parts. Another factor now might be comfort level with a newer technology. Some areas may be waiting to see how the service life/reliability of the direct drive is before selecting that option.
Rob :-)
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It’s kind of sad seeing this if I’m honest… We used to hike to some fabulous powder in Bergy. It was accessible but not overrun, back bowl but not back country, secluded but just another run in the day. I’m not sure how to feel about it, maybe I’m just being a sentimental sap. Anyone else feel me?
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You still have your powder stashes in Erickson and Independence Bowls. Bringing lift service to Bergman Bowl was long overdue, and moreover serves to better distribute skiers throughout the mountain (especially for intermediates, for whom there was a bit of a shortage of intermediate trails away from Dercum Mountain beyond Last Alamo and Prospector on North Peak, and a cluster of runs in the Outback). Along with giving Keystone chairlift service above timberline, which it had long lacked compared to the other Summit County ski areas which have way more extensive above-treeline lift networks (Copper has Three Bears, Sierra and Mountain Chief; Breck has the T-Bar, Kensho SuperChair and Imperial; A-Basin has Lenawee, Beavers and Zuma).
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Understandable that you miss the powder laps, but this new lift is an amazing addition. Despite all odds, Bergman Bowl surprisingly has never been too crowded. It’s a great place to go if the rest of the mountain is flooded with vacationers. I was skiing at Keystone on a holiday, and while Santiago, Montezuma, and Peru all had mammoth lines, Bergman Express was never longer than 10 minutes. If you head up here during the spring time, while the rest of the mountain is turning the slush, the snow up here remains soft and buttery. The turns are fantastic!
Bregman Bowl was a great place to escape the crowds, and it’s sad to see it go, but this lift was game changing. There is still Independence and Erickson bowls, which are still isolated and full of powder!
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Every time I want to complain about my local hill, I remind myself that a ten minute wait at my local hill is almost unheard of on any day not named Saturday, and that all I need to do is change tactics or lifts and the wait will be back down to a few minutes or less. Lastly, I will never understand anyone’s disdain for slush. It’s number two on the list of hash tag Objectively Best Skiings tee em behind supportive, recently thawed corn snow, ahead of number three, summer watermelon snirt. Day-old consolidated misses the podium at number four. Anyway, thanks for listening to my hash tag totally relevant ramblings.
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I wonder what Keystone’s next project will be? I’m guessing Wayback and Outback Express upgrades.
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