E Lift. The Yan triple before Excellerator. The scene was actually filmed on the deck of Solitude Station on a chair that was a spare from under the summer deck.
From what I know the chairs were reused on S lift, before being replaced by CTEC chairs. The rest of the lift I believe was scrapped but I could be wrong.
I plan to get to Copper within the next month or so. I already got the rest of the new lifts in Colorado but the Flyer was not open yet at that time. I will get Taos as well when I go to Copper.
Rode the new chairs today. American Flyer is quite the thrill ride. Durring stops (which it does quite often) it rolls backwards quite a ways. In certain spots it also can drop and bounce probably 30 feet or so. It honestly felt very unsafe.
The lift does not roll back. What you’re experiencing is the line equalising itself. Consider how much weight is on the heavy side, and the associated momentum. When the lift stops the weight sags in between towers on the heavy side, then the light side becomes tight and wants to pull back. It always takes several back-and-forth cycles like this to come to rest after a stop. The lift is safe. The old one did this as well, but it wasn’t as noticeable with the lighter carriers.
The bubbles on old F were all manual. They had to have a lift op shut them at the top and another to open them at the bottom if it was windy. Otherwise they stayed up and the chair’s passengers pulled them down if they wanted.
We’ve had eyes on that area for years- in fact, there was once a map with lifts 8,9, and 10 in that basin. I think we’re looking more at upgrading and refining what we already have though. Hard to say.
What is the point of replacing Super Bee, a detachable six-pack still young enough to keep going for a number of years, with another detachable six-pack? I agree East Village needs more out-of-base capacity, but this would not do anything. The Timberline replacement makes some sense, as it does get backed up sometimes, and the equipment is new enough/in good enough shape where it could be moved over to Lumberjack and upgrade that lift. I think the Lumberjack base would have to stay where it to please the homeowners in that area. I also like the idea of an infill lift, although I think that your location is not ideal. It cannot be an effective lapping lift, as everyone would be forced onto Coppertone, and it does not effectively move people around the mountain.
Some other ideas worth considering: Alpine is old, long, and could very easily service the Far East Lot with a small bridge or tunnel spanning CO-91. Upgrading it to a detachable quad could allow them to charge for parking in Far East. Union Meadows is an underutilized part of the mountain due to it requiring a Timberline to Sierra link to lap. An expansion lift there could help spread skiers out. Speaking of Sierra, it could use a capacity upgrade as well, as it also can get decent lift lines primarily because it has such low capacity. Mountain Chief is really old and could go to a fixed-grip triple to match Three Bears.
I remember on the skilifts.org forum someone saying “If upgrading Alpine means they start grooming like they do around the Super Bee, then I hope they keep Alpine as it is till it rots.”
Why would changing the lift necessitate suddenly changing the grooming plan? People don’t ski alpine for the groomers. As it is, we groom Formidable almost every night, and Triple Treat once a week.
Honestly the infill lift would work better if it replaced Rendezvous lift ending in the same spot but starting around CB2 (snowmaking control building off of coppertone), that way the lift could receive traffic from both Flayer and Eagle and move it to copper bowl while providing some good blue green lap terrain. Doubt capacity changes to 6 or 4 as all the lifts in the bowl are all designed for 1200pph though blackjack(4) can be upgraded to a triple (maybe use L chairs when it is replaced to upgrade cap). Timberline should be upgraded as its’ a popular trail system, and the existing lift would be a good replacement for Lumberjack on its existing line.
New Super Bee Express: I agree with skitheeast. Whats the point of replacing a 6 chair with a 6 chair? I don’t think the lift has high hours on it. If your cold, well, skiing might just not be for you, or go to Center Village and catch the Flyer. The only thing I could see being possible for a future replacement of this lift is a gondola, but that’s a push.
Idea: Replace Alpine with high speed quad.
Care Free Express: This lift would be practically pointless. Center Village holds its capacity well. The longest I have ever had to stand in a line at the Flyer is 10 minutes. Eagle has been about 7.
Idea: I like Vons3’s idea for a High Speed quad from where Liberty and Coppertone meet to the top of the R lift.
Timberline Express: I think this should be the next lift on the chopping block. It’s a bottleneck on the mountain.
Lumberjack Replacement: There is no point in replacing Lumberjack, and extending it uphill would be a pain in the a** for beginner skiers. The lift does not get lines. Yes, ride time is a bit long, but the only time I would see a replacement there is when they expand into Union Meadows. I would extend the lift uphill to service that terrain.
Here’s some other thoughts:
Timberline to a 6 chair and re-use Timberline to replace S lift- I am quite surprised that this did not happen before Tucker Mountain and they didn’t re-use S on Tucker.
Storm King to a triple chair as its been getting pretty backed up. Maybe use the equipment to expand into Union meadows
Other than that, Copper is in pretty good standing with their lifts.
Instead of the Care Free lift, I would upgrade Rendezvous to a high speed quad and extend it downhill to a point where it could be accessed from Solitude Station.
It would be awesome if Storm King was converted to an actual chairlift instead of a t-bar. However, Copper insists the winds on the liftline would not permit a chairlift to run on many days. Personally, I think that is because it rides Hallelujah Ridge all the way up so it is super exposed, and perhaps a chairlift could work with a base at the intersection of Easy Road and Coppertone (allowing access from Solitude Station). This liftline would be shielded from most of the wind that goes over the ridgeline.
Something else I have always wondered is why Sierra does not go the extra 100 feet to access Copper Bowl and unload next to Mountain Chief. If it is winds, then why does Mountain Chief unload where it does on the ridgeline?
The Master Plan addresses your Sierra question and attributes the issue to wind. Copper views it like this: Sure, Mountain Chief is already on the ridge, but most people riding Sierra don’t want the backside; they want the face. Even if Union ended on the ridge, you’d still have to hike Copper Bowl. The Master plan leaves open the option that when Sierra gets replaced with a D4C, it gets realigned to end at the top of Union Peak.
Storm King has the most wind-related downtime of any of our lifts. Placing a realigned lift where you suggest won’t change that- if you look at that side of Copper Peak, you’ll notice that there’s no snow there because the same wind rips it off the face.
When Copper built the original Storm King, people would ask me why it was closed (5-10mph wind at the bottom). I would reply “Did you watch the news this morning when they said that the Jet Stream was dipping down into Colorado? The top terminal IS IN the Jet Stream!”
@Michael – since quibbling over minutiae seems de rigueur here, I will point out that the mid-latitude jet is generally above 350 hPA (25 grand-ish), usually over 200 knots windspeed. The winds that you and my oldest bro describe here are surface winds. Certainly not less snow-scrapy for the distinction, just different semantically.
@jJoe – Apparently the folks I was talking to did not have your expertise regarding the jet stream. They nodded their heads and smiled as if they understood the concept;-)
Copper has made pretty good progress on their 2011 master plan 10 years in.
Completed: Woodward Express (2011), Storm King (2013), Celebrity Ridge (2013), Kokomo Express (2017), American Flyer (2018), Three Bears (2019)
Bonus Project: American Eagle (2018)
Incomplete: Alpine upgrade, Lumberjack upgrade, teaching lift above Lumberjack, N-Lift infill lift, Sierra upgrade
Given their current pace, I would guess it will take another ~7 years to complete everything. If there were to be another unanticipated upgrade like American Eagle, I would guess it would be a Timberline upgrade to a six-pack, with the existing equipment then used for the Lumberjack upgrade.
Red areas would be potentially closed areas depending on terrain.
Yellow lines are potential lift trails.
Red lines are existing lifts.
Purple lines are my proposed lifts.
1. This lift would be a 1.33 mile High Speed Quad or High Speed Six running from the top of Jacques Pique to near the top of Lallarookn. The top part may be exposed though.
2. This lift would be a 1.42 mile High Speed Quad running from near the same location as 1 to the bottom of lift 4. Modifications to terrain around Jacques creek may be needed.
3. This lift would be a 1.37 mile High Speed Quad running from near the top of Lumberjack. Again modifications to terrain around Jacques Creek may be needed.
4. This lift would be a 1.08 mile Fixed Grip Triple, Quad or a High Speed Quad running from the top of lift 2 to the top of the bowl shown. This could be exposed though so that’s why I suggested a Fixed triple or Quad. If it was a quad I would put a loading carpet on it to let it run a little bit faster because of length.
Rough morning for lift ops at Copper today. Super Bee/Resolution/Storm King are down and Excelerator/American Eagle were both stop & go on generator power. Just my luck for mechanical issues to follow me wherever I ski, I thought it was just Stevens Pass maintenance issues :)
You mean rough morning for us :) Lost a phase at the top of the rock, ran B and E on diesel for a bit and kept A-1 and M closed until repairs could be made. Eagle was never on generator. Worst part was the dispatch office is in PHQ which also lost power, knocking out one of the radio repeaters. Hard to catch lift issues when you can’t hear half the radio transmissions.
Lift Blog 
Does anyone know what lift dumb and dumber was filmed on during when hairy got his tongue stuck on the chair?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Rendezvous
LikeLike
No. See the responses below.😉
LikeLike
E Lift. The Yan triple before Excellerator. The scene was actually filmed on the deck of Solitude Station on a chair that was a spare from under the summer deck.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks! Did E lift sell?
LikeLike
From what I know the chairs were reused on S lift, before being replaced by CTEC chairs. The rest of the lift I believe was scrapped but I could be wrong.
LikeLike
E’s carriers did go to S. The gearbox and drive bullwheel went to R, as did the tower assemblies and lifting gantries (R originally had none).
LikeLike
Peter- you show that C-lift was removed. It wasn’t, I still maintain it. Its other name is Gem.
LikeLike
Today during testing of the American Eagle lift, I heard via local news that a gondola cabin had fallen off the haul rope. As this was during a test, no one was on the lift, so no casualties. The cause? I’ve heard that the cabin hit a piece of construction material.
News story: https://www.9news.com/article/money/business/empty-gondola-falls-from-new-lift-at-copper-mountain/73-617806868
Sorry I couldn’t get the video.
LikeLike
LikeLiked by 1 person
Peter, are you heading to Colorado soon to take pictures of the new American Eagle and Flyer?
LikeLike
I plan to get to Copper within the next month or so. I already got the rest of the new lifts in Colorado but the Flyer was not open yet at that time. I will get Taos as well when I go to Copper.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Rode the new chairs today. American Flyer is quite the thrill ride. Durring stops (which it does quite often) it rolls backwards quite a ways. In certain spots it also can drop and bounce probably 30 feet or so. It honestly felt very unsafe.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The lift does not roll back. What you’re experiencing is the line equalising itself. Consider how much weight is on the heavy side, and the associated momentum. When the lift stops the weight sags in between towers on the heavy side, then the light side becomes tight and wants to pull back. It always takes several back-and-forth cycles like this to come to rest after a stop. The lift is safe. The old one did this as well, but it wasn’t as noticeable with the lighter carriers.
LikeLiked by 2 people
The Old E chair at Copper had bubbles?
LikeLike
No. The original F lift at Copper had bubbles.
LikeLike
that was the fixed grip in the place of American Eagle right? How did the bubbles work on a fixed grip chairlift?
LikeLike
For a modern example take a look at some of the lifts at Yellowstone Club.
LikeLike
The two fixed grip lifts at Yellowstone Club with bubbles are both pulse lifts. Lift F wasn’t a pulse lift.
LikeLike
The bubbles on old F were all manual. They had to have a lift op shut them at the top and another to open them at the bottom if it was windy. Otherwise they stayed up and the chair’s passengers pulled them down if they wanted.
LikeLike
Timberline express is 1100 not 1000
LikeLike
In their master plan it shows a possible location for new lifts in a place called Jacques Basin. Does anyone think this will happen? https://skimap.org/data/509/916/1421292663.jpg
LikeLiked by 1 person
We’ve had eyes on that area for years- in fact, there was once a map with lifts 8,9, and 10 in that basin. I think we’re looking more at upgrading and refining what we already have though. Hard to say.
LikeLike
Blackjack received a Skytrac return station in 2019 as the loading area had to be moved to accommodate the Three Bears lift.
LikeLike
Here’s what I was thinking about what Copper Mt. should do in future plans.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=14G_21veS_oi7hJyFgdmtEHObPsWwKXOG&ll=39.49241988113821%2C-106.16922938975154&z=14
LikeLike
What is the point of replacing Super Bee, a detachable six-pack still young enough to keep going for a number of years, with another detachable six-pack? I agree East Village needs more out-of-base capacity, but this would not do anything. The Timberline replacement makes some sense, as it does get backed up sometimes, and the equipment is new enough/in good enough shape where it could be moved over to Lumberjack and upgrade that lift. I think the Lumberjack base would have to stay where it to please the homeowners in that area. I also like the idea of an infill lift, although I think that your location is not ideal. It cannot be an effective lapping lift, as everyone would be forced onto Coppertone, and it does not effectively move people around the mountain.
Some other ideas worth considering: Alpine is old, long, and could very easily service the Far East Lot with a small bridge or tunnel spanning CO-91. Upgrading it to a detachable quad could allow them to charge for parking in Far East. Union Meadows is an underutilized part of the mountain due to it requiring a Timberline to Sierra link to lap. An expansion lift there could help spread skiers out. Speaking of Sierra, it could use a capacity upgrade as well, as it also can get decent lift lines primarily because it has such low capacity. Mountain Chief is really old and could go to a fixed-grip triple to match Three Bears.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think the Master Plan has Alpine being upgraded to a high speed quad and being extended a bit higher up to the top of Copperopolis.
LikeLike
I think the one caveat of upgrading Alpine is that Copper would need to start grooming the four trails it services on a nightly basis.
Maybe one of the trails could be reclassified as a blue trail?
LikeLike
I remember on the skilifts.org forum someone saying “If upgrading Alpine means they start grooming like they do around the Super Bee, then I hope they keep Alpine as it is till it rots.”
LikeLike
It’s like they don’t realize they’d still have the Resolution pod. And not all the Super Bee blacks are groomed, I think.
LikeLike
Why would changing the lift necessitate suddenly changing the grooming plan? People don’t ski alpine for the groomers. As it is, we groom Formidable almost every night, and Triple Treat once a week.
LikeLike
Honestly the infill lift would work better if it replaced Rendezvous lift ending in the same spot but starting around CB2 (snowmaking control building off of coppertone), that way the lift could receive traffic from both Flayer and Eagle and move it to copper bowl while providing some good blue green lap terrain. Doubt capacity changes to 6 or 4 as all the lifts in the bowl are all designed for 1200pph though blackjack(4) can be upgraded to a triple (maybe use L chairs when it is replaced to upgrade cap). Timberline should be upgraded as its’ a popular trail system, and the existing lift would be a good replacement for Lumberjack on its existing line.
LikeLike
New Super Bee Express: I agree with skitheeast. Whats the point of replacing a 6 chair with a 6 chair? I don’t think the lift has high hours on it. If your cold, well, skiing might just not be for you, or go to Center Village and catch the Flyer. The only thing I could see being possible for a future replacement of this lift is a gondola, but that’s a push.
Idea: Replace Alpine with high speed quad.
Care Free Express: This lift would be practically pointless. Center Village holds its capacity well. The longest I have ever had to stand in a line at the Flyer is 10 minutes. Eagle has been about 7.
Idea: I like Vons3’s idea for a High Speed quad from where Liberty and Coppertone meet to the top of the R lift.
Timberline Express: I think this should be the next lift on the chopping block. It’s a bottleneck on the mountain.
Lumberjack Replacement: There is no point in replacing Lumberjack, and extending it uphill would be a pain in the a** for beginner skiers. The lift does not get lines. Yes, ride time is a bit long, but the only time I would see a replacement there is when they expand into Union Meadows. I would extend the lift uphill to service that terrain.
Here’s some other thoughts:
Timberline to a 6 chair and re-use Timberline to replace S lift- I am quite surprised that this did not happen before Tucker Mountain and they didn’t re-use S on Tucker.
Storm King to a triple chair as its been getting pretty backed up. Maybe use the equipment to expand into Union meadows
Other than that, Copper is in pretty good standing with their lifts.
LikeLike
Instead of the Care Free lift, I would upgrade Rendezvous to a high speed quad and extend it downhill to a point where it could be accessed from Solitude Station.
LikeLike
That could work. But wouldn’t it be likely relocated from it’s original spot and make the line down CopperTone and where it ends.
I could do that.
LikeLike
It would be awesome if Storm King was converted to an actual chairlift instead of a t-bar. However, Copper insists the winds on the liftline would not permit a chairlift to run on many days. Personally, I think that is because it rides Hallelujah Ridge all the way up so it is super exposed, and perhaps a chairlift could work with a base at the intersection of Easy Road and Coppertone (allowing access from Solitude Station). This liftline would be shielded from most of the wind that goes over the ridgeline.
Something else I have always wondered is why Sierra does not go the extra 100 feet to access Copper Bowl and unload next to Mountain Chief. If it is winds, then why does Mountain Chief unload where it does on the ridgeline?
LikeLike
The Master Plan addresses your Sierra question and attributes the issue to wind. Copper views it like this: Sure, Mountain Chief is already on the ridge, but most people riding Sierra don’t want the backside; they want the face. Even if Union ended on the ridge, you’d still have to hike Copper Bowl. The Master plan leaves open the option that when Sierra gets replaced with a D4C, it gets realigned to end at the top of Union Peak.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Since the install of Celebrity Ridge platter it’s unlikely any new S lift would change from the current alignment.
LikeLike
Storm King has the most wind-related downtime of any of our lifts. Placing a realigned lift where you suggest won’t change that- if you look at that side of Copper Peak, you’ll notice that there’s no snow there because the same wind rips it off the face.
LikeLike
When Copper built the original Storm King, people would ask me why it was closed (5-10mph wind at the bottom). I would reply “Did you watch the news this morning when they said that the Jet Stream was dipping down into Colorado? The top terminal IS IN the Jet Stream!”
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Michael – since quibbling over minutiae seems de rigueur here, I will point out that the mid-latitude jet is generally above 350 hPA (25 grand-ish), usually over 200 knots windspeed. The winds that you and my oldest bro describe here are surface winds. Certainly not less snow-scrapy for the distinction, just different semantically.
LikeLike
@jJoe – Apparently the folks I was talking to did not have your expertise regarding the jet stream. They nodded their heads and smiled as if they understood the concept;-)
LikeLike
@michael – Perfect. Follow up question: Where do you put the moguls at night and how do you get them back on some of the runs and not others?
LikeLike
Copper has made pretty good progress on their 2011 master plan 10 years in.
Completed: Woodward Express (2011), Storm King (2013), Celebrity Ridge (2013), Kokomo Express (2017), American Flyer (2018), Three Bears (2019)
Bonus Project: American Eagle (2018)
Incomplete: Alpine upgrade, Lumberjack upgrade, teaching lift above Lumberjack, N-Lift infill lift, Sierra upgrade
Given their current pace, I would guess it will take another ~7 years to complete everything. If there were to be another unanticipated upgrade like American Eagle, I would guess it would be a Timberline upgrade to a six-pack, with the existing equipment then used for the Lumberjack upgrade.
LikeLike
My lift ideas for Jacques basin
https://imgur.com/gallery/LhJVSV
Red areas would be potentially closed areas depending on terrain.
Yellow lines are potential lift trails.
Red lines are existing lifts.
Purple lines are my proposed lifts.
1. This lift would be a 1.33 mile High Speed Quad or High Speed Six running from the top of Jacques Pique to near the top of Lallarookn. The top part may be exposed though.
2. This lift would be a 1.42 mile High Speed Quad running from near the same location as 1 to the bottom of lift 4. Modifications to terrain around Jacques creek may be needed.
3. This lift would be a 1.37 mile High Speed Quad running from near the top of Lumberjack. Again modifications to terrain around Jacques Creek may be needed.
4. This lift would be a 1.08 mile Fixed Grip Triple, Quad or a High Speed Quad running from the top of lift 2 to the top of the bowl shown. This could be exposed though so that’s why I suggested a Fixed triple or Quad. If it was a quad I would put a loading carpet on it to let it run a little bit faster because of length.
LikeLike
Map link is fixed
LikeLiked by 1 person
Anyone confused on Coppers website? Some of the lifts say they will be closed for the season for some reason.
https://www.coppercolorado.com/the-mountain/trail-lift-info/winter-trail-report
LikeLike
That’s left over from last spring. I’ll get in touch with whoever maintains the site. Thanks for pointing this out!
LikeLike
Rough morning for lift ops at Copper today. Super Bee/Resolution/Storm King are down and Excelerator/American Eagle were both stop & go on generator power. Just my luck for mechanical issues to follow me wherever I ski, I thought it was just Stevens Pass maintenance issues :)
LikeLike
You mean rough morning for us :) Lost a phase at the top of the rock, ran B and E on diesel for a bit and kept A-1 and M closed until repairs could be made. Eagle was never on generator. Worst part was the dispatch office is in PHQ which also lost power, knocking out one of the radio repeaters. Hard to catch lift issues when you can’t hear half the radio transmissions.
LikeLiked by 1 person
One of the old heron poma lifts that was up here https://mountainscholar.org/bitstream/handle/11124/8460/R1261.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
LikeLike
That was the original ‘G Lift’.
LikeLike