This version of Creekside is the third gondola to grace these slopes.Loading area.Doppelmayr Connect controls.View riding over the Dave Murray Downhill.Looking back down the long lift line.Breakover towers next to Raven’s Nest.Top terminal next to the bottom of Big Red, built at the same time.Side view of the drive station.Top unloading area and rail to future parking facility.Side view of towers 17 through 19.T17.A hold down tower.Looking up the line.Middle part of the lift line.10 passenger Omega cabins.A tower with combination assemblies.View up the line.Lower lift line.Bottom terminal in Creekside Village.Side view of the return station.Loading on straight sections only.Lower station overview.
19 thoughts on “Creekside Gondola – Whistler Blackcomb, BC”
John FlanaganFebruary 23, 2023 / 8:51 pm
Really going to be interesting to see how Vail implements these upgrades with the bike park, especially with Fitz getting replaced this summer. Perhaps going to implement the new doppelmayr bike cab for creek? As far as fitz and big red goes, ive seen two different versions of doppel bike carriers for chairs on YouTube… one that is chair/bike combo where you put bikes on back of every chair with riders on same chair, and then bike only hangars with chairs every other. Could be Deasonbuilts time to shine? Exciting stuff going on for the summer side of things, 3/5 lifts (if you count whistler gondola) brand new.
Happy they went with Kappe, great for capacity. Bummed they are making us stuff the bikes in the brand new gondola cabins, the deasonbuilt on the old creek was super cool
I guess now that i think about it bike and people in every cabin would be higher capacity than every other. Plus will be a littler easier to maneuver than whistler village gondi bc they are 10ppl cabins. Would be cool to see bike cab eventually
Creekside I noted today has the removable inner protection screens, do at least the bikes wont scratch the main windows.
I hope like many of the European gondolas that they are hosed down to clean out the dirt. I know village has hosing capability with at G1 base load dock or in mid station barn, but I haven’t seen the setup for creekside yet. I know for bike park ops in the past there as wash stations at the Dusty’s sude so it should be pretty easy, but it’s one of the biggest differences I noted Europe vs Whistler that the cabs are not clean over here. I think in part as Europe uses way more rubber mats so it’s cleaner boots going in vs grit and salt walked in, and have more enclosed stations than we do with time and staff to do it.
Why does the group think they didn’t go with D-Lines for these two monster projects? Vail ordered a D-Line 8-pack for Park City the same season, and these already had European conical towers imported. What would the cost difference have been for Omega VI cabins and D-Line gear like Steamboat did with Wild Blue? Or is the goal to have parts commonality with the Blackcomb Gondola and Emerald?
I think because D-Line was the only option for an 8 place. LPOA does not have terminals designed and Doppelmayr will not do an 8 place UNI-G any more. Vail always wants the best possible price and doesn’t order direct drive, loading conveyors, bubbles or heated seats. Look at the Poma passes too instead of catwalks. D-Line falls into the same category.
I’m guessing the conical towers were purely a Doppelmayr decision. They have a lot of extra production capacity in Europe so chose some lifts to send towers over for this year.
I wonder if LPOA will bring the Leitner Pininfarina design over from Europe to compete with the D-Line. The current LPOA terminals already look cheap compared to the D-Line terminals, and an even wider LPOA terminal to accommodate an 8 person chair would look horrendous.
This is at least the second comment I’ve seen lately to complain that the LPA terminals look ‘cheap’. I’m curious what makes you say that?
I rather doubt Leitner will begin importing their European terminals at this point. They couldn’t get traction twenty years ago and unless GJ fully runs out of manufacturing capacity there’s not reason enough. I think LPOA will remain the sole manufacturer of any of that group’s products for North America for the foreseeable future- especially with SkyTrac providing additional fixed-grip capacity and freeing up space in Grand Junction for detachables.
8-CLDs just don’t have the same market that 6-CLDs have and when they do they get treated like flagships with all the bells and whistles (think Boyne at Loon, Big Sky, Sunday River).
They probably figure that a customer with the money to consider an 8-seater in the first place has the money to splurge on a D-Line, so why bother with keeping a UNIG 8 option around.
I feel like both manufacturers won’t be bothered to make a cheaper 8-CLD (wider LPOA terminal or UNIG) unless there was a sudden surge in demand for 8-CLDs, until then D-Line really is your only option. Vail is stingy when it comes to high-dollar options, but even they paid for a D-Line because Silverlode (now Fitzsimmons) is such a chokepoint so it was worth the cost.
@pbropetech I must admit that LPOA terminals have improved significantly from the 2010 era, although I wonder if this notion that LPOA terminals look cheaper is just because the D-Line and newer/well-kept UNI-Gs just look SO sharp. Both manufacturers have come a long way, but I wonder if Doppelmayr’s preference for more industrial looking design contributes to the distinct difference of opinions.
Personally? It’s the windows and the whole back/turnaround side of the LPOA terminal. They just look… not as good as Doppelmayr equipment? The completely flat back, weirdly spaced/shaped half-height windows (the inconsistency in space between windows is not attractive), sometimes accompanied by boring grey just don’t do it for me compared to the larger and more uniform windows featured on Dopp terminals. The shape at the back of LPOA terminals also do not inspire me, they look like one of those christmas log cakes (yule log? Correct me if I’m wrong). I don’t particularly like the UNI-GS terminal either though so I might be biased.
Below is a selection of similarly colored lifts, mostly 6-packs, for comparison.
Recently constructed examples:
Lewanee Express: One of the better looking LPOA terminals, probably because they kept a consistent color scheme throughout each panel, but the back still looks very tired, even though this lift was built last year.
Peru Express: This is also an LPOA green terminal but with the boring grey accents I mentioned. I have seen a lot of terminals shipped with this exact colorway. https://liftblog.com/peru-express-keystone-co-2/
Burns Express: I tried to keep the selection uniform (ie green 6 packs) but I couldn’t find any 6-pack UNI-Gs built in the same time frame with a comparable colorway, and Burns’ accent color is white as opposed to grey. But doesn’t it just pop more than the LPOA terminals? https://liftblog.com/burns-express-deer-valley-ut/
Older examples:
Burnt Ridge: LPOA was still building this type of terminal in 2008, but the main design proportions have stayed roughly the same, only the materials have changed. https://liftblog.com/burnt-ridge-gore-mountain-ny/
Facelift: Even an older generation green UNI-G seems to look more futuristic than the current LPOA model. This lift might have 6-pack line gauge, for consistency with my examples. This was built in 2002. https://liftblog.com/face-lift-whiteface-ny/
On the other hand, the line side of LPOA terminals look great! No doubt due to full height evenly spaced windows, the bold & contrasting coloring of the line guards (unsure what these are called, storm doors maybe?) and some variation in facade heights. I wish they would take that same design language and apply it to the back of the terminals. But I think Doppelmayr terminals present a more attractive full package for now.
TL;DR: More full height windows on the turnaround please!
Final Note: I am not a lift maintenance guy! I present all of the above as a casual observer and fan of ropeways, I have never worked on any of these terminals and I would totally understand if techs have different thoughts due to ease of access and how nice they are inside.
No Poma’s in my neck of the woods but strongly agree that the terminals would look a lot sharper if the turnaround side matched the line side, the symmetry and bigger windows would do a lot of good. The older detaches in Mammoth have round turnarounds so there’s way less windows, but at least its symmetrical?
Treeline cirque at Alpine Meadows is honestly one of the sharper terminals because the mid-station has the line-side windows on both ends, looks so much cleaner but just my two cents.
Iceface and Mammothbot- I can get what you’re saying from a visual perspective. Being a tech and more concerned with what’s inside than how it looks, however, I can tell you that the back end of the LPA is configured in the way you see because of what’s inside, namely the parking rail stubs and the need for ventilation. Maybe some more careful design would help the aesthetics, but at the end of the day the terminal functions well for what it does.
As for the ‘line guards’, you are correct in that we refer to them as ‘storm doors’ or weather doors.
Lift Blog 
Really going to be interesting to see how Vail implements these upgrades with the bike park, especially with Fitz getting replaced this summer. Perhaps going to implement the new doppelmayr bike cab for creek? As far as fitz and big red goes, ive seen two different versions of doppel bike carriers for chairs on YouTube… one that is chair/bike combo where you put bikes on back of every chair with riders on same chair, and then bike only hangars with chairs every other. Could be Deasonbuilts time to shine? Exciting stuff going on for the summer side of things, 3/5 lifts (if you count whistler gondola) brand new.
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For reference….
Bike Cab
Bike/Chair Single Carrier
Separate Bike and Chair Carrier
Really hope they have some smart people at vail thinking about this…
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wow! bike cab is amazing. although I can imagine a lot of dumb people screwing up the loading.
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Fitz will have the bike \ chair combo like the Kappe lift. Creek gondola will run with standard cabins that can ransport 2 or 3 bikes with rider.
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Happy they went with Kappe, great for capacity. Bummed they are making us stuff the bikes in the brand new gondola cabins, the deasonbuilt on the old creek was super cool
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I guess now that i think about it bike and people in every cabin would be higher capacity than every other. Plus will be a littler easier to maneuver than whistler village gondi bc they are 10ppl cabins. Would be cool to see bike cab eventually
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We”ll see how it goes. Could potentially happen in the future (bikecabs), but need to be confident the customers can use them.
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Creekside I noted today has the removable inner protection screens, do at least the bikes wont scratch the main windows.
I hope like many of the European gondolas that they are hosed down to clean out the dirt. I know village has hosing capability with at G1 base load dock or in mid station barn, but I haven’t seen the setup for creekside yet. I know for bike park ops in the past there as wash stations at the Dusty’s sude so it should be pretty easy, but it’s one of the biggest differences I noted Europe vs Whistler that the cabs are not clean over here. I think in part as Europe uses way more rubber mats so it’s cleaner boots going in vs grit and salt walked in, and have more enclosed stations than we do with time and staff to do it.
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I miss the old one, but this one does seem pretty nice!
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Why does the group think they didn’t go with D-Lines for these two monster projects? Vail ordered a D-Line 8-pack for Park City the same season, and these already had European conical towers imported. What would the cost difference have been for Omega VI cabins and D-Line gear like Steamboat did with Wild Blue? Or is the goal to have parts commonality with the Blackcomb Gondola and Emerald?
LikeLike
I think because D-Line was the only option for an 8 place. LPOA does not have terminals designed and Doppelmayr will not do an 8 place UNI-G any more. Vail always wants the best possible price and doesn’t order direct drive, loading conveyors, bubbles or heated seats. Look at the Poma passes too instead of catwalks. D-Line falls into the same category.
I’m guessing the conical towers were purely a Doppelmayr decision. They have a lot of extra production capacity in Europe so chose some lifts to send towers over for this year.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I personally like the conical European towers more than the canadian and american style towers
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I wonder if LPOA will bring the Leitner Pininfarina design over from Europe to compete with the D-Line. The current LPOA terminals already look cheap compared to the D-Line terminals, and an even wider LPOA terminal to accommodate an 8 person chair would look horrendous.
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This is at least the second comment I’ve seen lately to complain that the LPA terminals look ‘cheap’. I’m curious what makes you say that?
I rather doubt Leitner will begin importing their European terminals at this point. They couldn’t get traction twenty years ago and unless GJ fully runs out of manufacturing capacity there’s not reason enough. I think LPOA will remain the sole manufacturer of any of that group’s products for North America for the foreseeable future- especially with SkyTrac providing additional fixed-grip capacity and freeing up space in Grand Junction for detachables.
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why wont they make 8 pack UNI-Gs anymore? it seems like there are still customers for them.
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8-CLDs just don’t have the same market that 6-CLDs have and when they do they get treated like flagships with all the bells and whistles (think Boyne at Loon, Big Sky, Sunday River).
They probably figure that a customer with the money to consider an 8-seater in the first place has the money to splurge on a D-Line, so why bother with keeping a UNIG 8 option around.
I feel like both manufacturers won’t be bothered to make a cheaper 8-CLD (wider LPOA terminal or UNIG) unless there was a sudden surge in demand for 8-CLDs, until then D-Line really is your only option. Vail is stingy when it comes to high-dollar options, but even they paid for a D-Line because Silverlode (now Fitzsimmons) is such a chokepoint so it was worth the cost.
LikeLiked by 2 people
@pbropetech I must admit that LPOA terminals have improved significantly from the 2010 era, although I wonder if this notion that LPOA terminals look cheaper is just because the D-Line and newer/well-kept UNI-Gs just look SO sharp. Both manufacturers have come a long way, but I wonder if Doppelmayr’s preference for more industrial looking design contributes to the distinct difference of opinions.
Personally? It’s the windows and the whole back/turnaround side of the LPOA terminal. They just look… not as good as Doppelmayr equipment? The completely flat back, weirdly spaced/shaped half-height windows (the inconsistency in space between windows is not attractive), sometimes accompanied by boring grey just don’t do it for me compared to the larger and more uniform windows featured on Dopp terminals. The shape at the back of LPOA terminals also do not inspire me, they look like one of those christmas log cakes (yule log? Correct me if I’m wrong). I don’t particularly like the UNI-GS terminal either though so I might be biased.
Below is a selection of similarly colored lifts, mostly 6-packs, for comparison.
Recently constructed examples:
Lewanee Express: One of the better looking LPOA terminals, probably because they kept a consistent color scheme throughout each panel, but the back still looks very tired, even though this lift was built last year.
https://liftblog.com/lenawee-express-arapahoe-basin-co/
Colter: A similarly colored D-Line. Look at the turnaround side of the terminal, it just inspires more joy than the LPOA for me.
https://liftblog.com/colter-grand-targhee-wy/
!!! If you disagree about “similarly colored”, here is a more understated color scheme on a D-Line: https://liftblog.com/black-bear-6-camelback-pa/
Peru Express: This is also an LPOA green terminal but with the boring grey accents I mentioned. I have seen a lot of terminals shipped with this exact colorway.
https://liftblog.com/peru-express-keystone-co-2/
Burns Express: I tried to keep the selection uniform (ie green 6 packs) but I couldn’t find any 6-pack UNI-Gs built in the same time frame with a comparable colorway, and Burns’ accent color is white as opposed to grey. But doesn’t it just pop more than the LPOA terminals?
https://liftblog.com/burns-express-deer-valley-ut/
Older examples:
Burnt Ridge: LPOA was still building this type of terminal in 2008, but the main design proportions have stayed roughly the same, only the materials have changed.
https://liftblog.com/burnt-ridge-gore-mountain-ny/
Facelift: Even an older generation green UNI-G seems to look more futuristic than the current LPOA model. This lift might have 6-pack line gauge, for consistency with my examples. This was built in 2002.
https://liftblog.com/face-lift-whiteface-ny/
On the other hand, the line side of LPOA terminals look great! No doubt due to full height evenly spaced windows, the bold & contrasting coloring of the line guards (unsure what these are called, storm doors maybe?) and some variation in facade heights. I wish they would take that same design language and apply it to the back of the terminals. But I think Doppelmayr terminals present a more attractive full package for now.
TL;DR: More full height windows on the turnaround please!
Final Note: I am not a lift maintenance guy! I present all of the above as a casual observer and fan of ropeways, I have never worked on any of these terminals and I would totally understand if techs have different thoughts due to ease of access and how nice they are inside.
LikeLiked by 3 people
No Poma’s in my neck of the woods but strongly agree that the terminals would look a lot sharper if the turnaround side matched the line side, the symmetry and bigger windows would do a lot of good. The older detaches in Mammoth have round turnarounds so there’s way less windows, but at least its symmetrical?
Treeline cirque at Alpine Meadows is honestly one of the sharper terminals because the mid-station has the line-side windows on both ends, looks so much cleaner but just my two cents.
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Iceface and Mammothbot- I can get what you’re saying from a visual perspective. Being a tech and more concerned with what’s inside than how it looks, however, I can tell you that the back end of the LPA is configured in the way you see because of what’s inside, namely the parking rail stubs and the need for ventilation. Maybe some more careful design would help the aesthetics, but at the end of the day the terminal functions well for what it does.
As for the ‘line guards’, you are correct in that we refer to them as ‘storm doors’ or weather doors.
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