Bottom tension terminal.Base station.Lift line from the base.Uni-Star top terminal.View back to the loading area.Riding up the lift line.Looking back down the line.Tower 15.Arriving up top.Drive terminal.
This lift really has to go detachable soon. There are a number of fantastic trails off this lift, it serves Cloud Dine, and it is literally at the center of the entire resort. Park City has two heavily trafficked areas: north of Tombstone/Ninety-Nine 90 and everything that is legacy Powdr owned PCMR. The vast area in between is really only used for transiting between the two via Quicksilver/Iron Mountain. Enticing more skiers to stay in this area with a detachable lift would ease congestion elsewhere in the resort by more effectively spreading everyone out.
I agree 100% but I think the reason it won’t is because it crosses Colony property, and the owners don’t want the noise of a detachable lift or something.
The new Direct drive d-line have little to no noise. The thing is doppelmayr doesn’t create CLD-4 D-Line chairlift terminals. They probably could but it would be expensive.
I know it is not a noise issue. At Deer Valley, Jordanelle’s top terminal is directly next to a Deer Crest house and Tombstone/Quicksilver are both next to Colony homes. It stems from the fact that it wasn’t heavily utilized until Canyons and legacy Park City were connected and Cloud Dine was expanded. Vail just hasn’t invested the money yet.
On the bright side, because people are discouraged from this area, it stays better longer.
On a serious note, I’d replace Dreamscape before Dreamcatcher, even though this lift is longer. Dreamscape serves more of the intermediate side, as well as is the route people take from Peak 5 to get there. I still don’t think replacement of either of these two lifts will be super soon though.
I don’t think the replacement would be too hard. They already have the towers which would save time and money on construction. Although, I’m not to sure what would happen to the rest of the lift.
Agree with this. That said, I don’t think this area will see a meaningful increase in traffic unless PCMR finds ways to make access/egress more convenient with some new lifts. In particular, providing one lift access from Tombstone base to Dreamscape/Daybreak base is a big missing piece – it takes 3-4 lifts to get there from the Canyons base and isn’t much quicker from the PC side. If they can make it fit between the McMansions, ideally they’d punch one up from Tombstone base to somewhere around where Sanctuary and Serenity break off from Power Alley. The other missing piece is a lift to enable access to Peak 5/9990 from Dreamscape vs. having to go all the way down to Tombstone for that purpose.
In combination, those 2 lifts would allow people to lap the upper mtn terrain more efficiently, and also get to/from that whole zone much more quickly. In a perfect world, you’d also be able to get over to Red Pine Lodge directly from Peak 5/9990 base w/o having to go down to Tombstone again, but you have to walk before you run. Hopefully the insanity of the Colony development doesn’t preclude those sensible moves from a pure skiing perspective.
This area is now the center of the combined resort. When it was built Dreamcatcher was at the end of the earth and The Canyons saved money by going fixed. Now this gets backed up as people come right off the 8-passenger gondola and come to Dreamcatcher first, with a crowded restaurant at the top. All of those other suggestions would be great (and would have been great ideas 20 years ago too before they laid out the Colony).
I take hope that this is next on the list for replacement because they haven’t repainted the top terminal yet – it’s still orange, although the bottom terminal got new silver paint this year instead of orange. Dreamscape got silver paint on its formerly cream-colored towers last year as well.
Can’t imagine this is a noise issue – Dreamscape’s bottom drive makes plenty of noise and this would likely stay as a top drive away from any houses as there isn’t power at the bottom (the shack is run off a bullwheel generator), which tells you how far from civilization this lift was when it was built.
Here’s the 1999 master plan from The Canyons, showing what might have been:
– Dreamcatcher: proposed detachable
– Dreamscape: proposed detachable, instead pilfered from the Raptor line, leaving the 1965 Riblet double Golden Eagle to run for another 10 years
– Peak 5: proposed detachable
– Additional detachable higher up Peak 5
– Day Break: proposed detachable to the top of the ridge instead of to nowhere
– “Timberline”: would have been a detachable infill lift, became a fixed egress leading right into the Tombstone bottleneck
– “Silver Spur” 9990/Peak 5 return lift bypassing Tombstone to get back from there as a detachable
– Iron Mountain: of everything south of 9990, this was the only thing that was built in its master plan form right the first time
If they had built all of this the way it was originally laid out, they still would have needed what is now the new Over and Out, and a good way to return to Peak 5 from Dreamscape.
Remove Dreamcatcher and reinstall it as the backup egress lift next to Silverlode on the PCMR side, ending at the top of Crescent.
Bottom line, The Canyons has always had a very inefficient lift layout (dating back to the 1960s as Park West), which leads to a bunch of poorly located or transfer lifts like Lookout, Rip Cord, Over and Out, Timberline, Peak 5, Snow Canyon / Sun Peak, Dreamscape, Flat Iron, Sunrise, and the 100 yard angle station on the Red Pine gondola, not to mention the location of the Quicksilver bottom terminal. PCMR right next door has reasonable fall line skiing off of every lift.
4 years later same issues. Here’s what I think would work:
extend and realign high meadow to either top of obx or halfway up kokopelli, with a midstation at/near the current unload (6 pack). eliminate short cut, new high meadow does that same job with more purpose
sidewinder express 6 from red pine lodge to top of tombstone
ripsaw FGQ from 9990 base to top of tombstone
peak 5 HSQ, extend to top of ridge, creates a much better terrain pod
daybreak HSQ, extend to top of ridge, midstation at current unload, nobody skis these runs, make this lift have purpose, cut a run from top of ridgeline to cloud dine (take crowds from catcher and scape)
Skyward 6 pack from base of tombstone to top of dreamcatcher
solace FGQ from dreamcatcher base to current peak 5 unload
Dreamcatcher Replacement- Brand new High Speed quad from the base of Iron Mountain
Saddleback 6- Replace Saddleback with a 6 chair and move Saddleback to replace Peak 5
Peak 5 Express- Replace Peak 5 with old Saddleback.
Day Break quad: Replace Day Break with old Dreamcatcher lift and extend it up to the ridge
Dreamscape Express: Replace Dreamscape with new High Speed Quad and then use Dreamscape to build the lift above Peak 5
As for Timberline, I have no idea what I would do. It feels too short to be a detachable and too long to be a fixed grip.
Extending Dreamcatcher to the base of Iron Mountain makes no sense. It just creates a giant run-off on Cascade, it currently has a pretty well-designed pod, and any shift in alignment would definitely cause property issues with the Colony.
I do not think Saddleback needs an upgrade at the moment. A second lift out of Red Pine up towards the top of Tombstone could make sense from a skier flow perspective.
I am not sure if Peak 5 has the terrain potential, skier demand, or length to warrant a high-speed lift. In an ideal world, sure why not, but not at a resort with 40 other chairlifts and other priorities.
I would be thrilled if they extended Day Break all the way up to the ridge, although I would hope the replacement lift would be detachable due to the theoretical lift’s length.
Having Dreamscape go detachable is not a bad idea. I am not sure where the best new location for its current equipment is.
I would leave Timberline as is. It is not used for lapping and it is not very long, so spend the money elsewhere. For example, I think an infill lift from the bottom of Super Condor to the Orange Bubble mid-station would create a nice pod.
“I would leave Timberline as is. It is not used for lapping and it is not very long, so spend the money elsewhere. For example, I think an infill lift from the bottom of Super Condor to the Orange Bubble mid-station would create a nice pod.” That’s essentially reinstalling Raptor.
Converting Dreamscape and Dreamcatcher to high speed quads, I’d be up for.
As would extending Day Break up to the ridge, since that would enable a means of getting over to Ninety-Nine 90 without using Tombstone. Though it would have to be done in conjunction with another transfer lift from the bottom of Ninety-Nine 90 to the top of Tombstone to enable direct return to Red Pine Lodge.
Park West had a lift on that alignment back in the day – believe it was called Slaughterhouse and the line is visible on Google Earth. That spot is easily handled by Orange Bubble though – plenty of capacity over there.
If Day Break was extended, they would have to make sure to incorporate a mid station where the current Day Break lift let’s off. I feel that area has some of the better intermediate terrain on the Canyons side (Backstreet, Dawn, and Elk Dance especially) , so I’d like to keep it around. And, as you said, it would have to be detachable
A new slaughterhouse is a great idea that I’ve also thought of. However, OBX doesn’t really get busy, so I don’t think this is that high of a priority for PCMR, over lifts like Pioneer or Dreamcatcher.
This is one of those lifts where you have to be on your toes as a Lift Operator. On snowy days, this lift gets busy and has chairs full of snow. Usually only one operator at the bottom. You are bumping, brushing and making sure someone does not get taken out by the chair that comes flying around the corner. There is also a creek when you load, so you do not want to seat someone on a snowy chair as it is slippery and increases the risk of someone falling off. Also, between tower 1 and 2, the swing on the chairs is SCARY. The line is bouncing up and down and chairs are swinging back and fourth and side to side.This lift is not the most fun to load, or operate on snowy days. But overall, this is a great lift!
Lift Blog 
This lift really has to go detachable soon. There are a number of fantastic trails off this lift, it serves Cloud Dine, and it is literally at the center of the entire resort. Park City has two heavily trafficked areas: north of Tombstone/Ninety-Nine 90 and everything that is legacy Powdr owned PCMR. The vast area in between is really only used for transiting between the two via Quicksilver/Iron Mountain. Enticing more skiers to stay in this area with a detachable lift would ease congestion elsewhere in the resort by more effectively spreading everyone out.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I agree 100% but I think the reason it won’t is because it crosses Colony property, and the owners don’t want the noise of a detachable lift or something.
LikeLike
The new Direct drive d-line have little to no noise. The thing is doppelmayr doesn’t create CLD-4 D-Line chairlift terminals. They probably could but it would be expensive.
LikeLike
The people residing on the Colony agreed to live within an active ski area, so they really don’t have a right to complain.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I live in the colony Dreamcatcher is my go to Lyft and I would love to see an upgrade
LikeLike
I know it is not a noise issue. At Deer Valley, Jordanelle’s top terminal is directly next to a Deer Crest house and Tombstone/Quicksilver are both next to Colony homes. It stems from the fact that it wasn’t heavily utilized until Canyons and legacy Park City were connected and Cloud Dine was expanded. Vail just hasn’t invested the money yet.
LikeLike
Well don’t forget Iron Mtn and 9990 as well
LikeLike
On the bright side, because people are discouraged from this area, it stays better longer.
On a serious note, I’d replace Dreamscape before Dreamcatcher, even though this lift is longer. Dreamscape serves more of the intermediate side, as well as is the route people take from Peak 5 to get there. I still don’t think replacement of either of these two lifts will be super soon though.
LikeLike
I don’t think the replacement would be too hard. They already have the towers which would save time and money on construction. Although, I’m not to sure what would happen to the rest of the lift.
LikeLike
Agree with this. That said, I don’t think this area will see a meaningful increase in traffic unless PCMR finds ways to make access/egress more convenient with some new lifts. In particular, providing one lift access from Tombstone base to Dreamscape/Daybreak base is a big missing piece – it takes 3-4 lifts to get there from the Canyons base and isn’t much quicker from the PC side. If they can make it fit between the McMansions, ideally they’d punch one up from Tombstone base to somewhere around where Sanctuary and Serenity break off from Power Alley. The other missing piece is a lift to enable access to Peak 5/9990 from Dreamscape vs. having to go all the way down to Tombstone for that purpose.
In combination, those 2 lifts would allow people to lap the upper mtn terrain more efficiently, and also get to/from that whole zone much more quickly. In a perfect world, you’d also be able to get over to Red Pine Lodge directly from Peak 5/9990 base w/o having to go down to Tombstone again, but you have to walk before you run. Hopefully the insanity of the Colony development doesn’t preclude those sensible moves from a pure skiing perspective.
LikeLike
This area is now the center of the combined resort. When it was built Dreamcatcher was at the end of the earth and The Canyons saved money by going fixed. Now this gets backed up as people come right off the 8-passenger gondola and come to Dreamcatcher first, with a crowded restaurant at the top. All of those other suggestions would be great (and would have been great ideas 20 years ago too before they laid out the Colony).
I take hope that this is next on the list for replacement because they haven’t repainted the top terminal yet – it’s still orange, although the bottom terminal got new silver paint this year instead of orange. Dreamscape got silver paint on its formerly cream-colored towers last year as well.
Can’t imagine this is a noise issue – Dreamscape’s bottom drive makes plenty of noise and this would likely stay as a top drive away from any houses as there isn’t power at the bottom (the shack is run off a bullwheel generator), which tells you how far from civilization this lift was when it was built.
LikeLike
Here’s the 1999 master plan from The Canyons, showing what might have been:
– Dreamcatcher: proposed detachable
– Dreamscape: proposed detachable, instead pilfered from the Raptor line, leaving the 1965 Riblet double Golden Eagle to run for another 10 years
– Peak 5: proposed detachable
– Additional detachable higher up Peak 5
– Day Break: proposed detachable to the top of the ridge instead of to nowhere
– “Timberline”: would have been a detachable infill lift, became a fixed egress leading right into the Tombstone bottleneck
– “Silver Spur” 9990/Peak 5 return lift bypassing Tombstone to get back from there as a detachable
– Iron Mountain: of everything south of 9990, this was the only thing that was built in its master plan form right the first time
If they had built all of this the way it was originally laid out, they still would have needed what is now the new Over and Out, and a good way to return to Peak 5 from Dreamscape.
Remove Dreamcatcher and reinstall it as the backup egress lift next to Silverlode on the PCMR side, ending at the top of Crescent.
Bottom line, The Canyons has always had a very inefficient lift layout (dating back to the 1960s as Park West), which leads to a bunch of poorly located or transfer lifts like Lookout, Rip Cord, Over and Out, Timberline, Peak 5, Snow Canyon / Sun Peak, Dreamscape, Flat Iron, Sunrise, and the 100 yard angle station on the Red Pine gondola, not to mention the location of the Quicksilver bottom terminal. PCMR right next door has reasonable fall line skiing off of every lift.
LikeLiked by 1 person
A look at the full map shows you how much better planned out PCMR was:
LikeLike
I wonder what would happen if the American ski company never went bankrupt
LikeLike
4 years later same issues. Here’s what I think would work:
LikeLike
What about this:
Dreamcatcher Replacement- Brand new High Speed quad from the base of Iron Mountain
Saddleback 6- Replace Saddleback with a 6 chair and move Saddleback to replace Peak 5
Peak 5 Express- Replace Peak 5 with old Saddleback.
Day Break quad: Replace Day Break with old Dreamcatcher lift and extend it up to the ridge
Dreamscape Express: Replace Dreamscape with new High Speed Quad and then use Dreamscape to build the lift above Peak 5
As for Timberline, I have no idea what I would do. It feels too short to be a detachable and too long to be a fixed grip.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Extending Dreamcatcher to the base of Iron Mountain makes no sense. It just creates a giant run-off on Cascade, it currently has a pretty well-designed pod, and any shift in alignment would definitely cause property issues with the Colony.
I do not think Saddleback needs an upgrade at the moment. A second lift out of Red Pine up towards the top of Tombstone could make sense from a skier flow perspective.
I am not sure if Peak 5 has the terrain potential, skier demand, or length to warrant a high-speed lift. In an ideal world, sure why not, but not at a resort with 40 other chairlifts and other priorities.
I would be thrilled if they extended Day Break all the way up to the ridge, although I would hope the replacement lift would be detachable due to the theoretical lift’s length.
Having Dreamscape go detachable is not a bad idea. I am not sure where the best new location for its current equipment is.
I would leave Timberline as is. It is not used for lapping and it is not very long, so spend the money elsewhere. For example, I think an infill lift from the bottom of Super Condor to the Orange Bubble mid-station would create a nice pod.
LikeLiked by 1 person
“I would leave Timberline as is. It is not used for lapping and it is not very long, so spend the money elsewhere. For example, I think an infill lift from the bottom of Super Condor to the Orange Bubble mid-station would create a nice pod.” That’s essentially reinstalling Raptor.
Converting Dreamscape and Dreamcatcher to high speed quads, I’d be up for.
As would extending Day Break up to the ridge, since that would enable a means of getting over to Ninety-Nine 90 without using Tombstone. Though it would have to be done in conjunction with another transfer lift from the bottom of Ninety-Nine 90 to the top of Tombstone to enable direct return to Red Pine Lodge.
LikeLike
Yes, similar to Raptor, although with a base next to Super Condor instead of where Rip Cord is today.
LikeLike
Park West had a lift on that alignment back in the day – believe it was called Slaughterhouse and the line is visible on Google Earth. That spot is easily handled by Orange Bubble though – plenty of capacity over there.
LikeLike
If Day Break was extended, they would have to make sure to incorporate a mid station where the current Day Break lift let’s off. I feel that area has some of the better intermediate terrain on the Canyons side (Backstreet, Dawn, and Elk Dance especially) , so I’d like to keep it around. And, as you said, it would have to be detachable
LikeLike
A new slaughterhouse is a great idea that I’ve also thought of. However, OBX doesn’t really get busy, so I don’t think this is that high of a priority for PCMR, over lifts like Pioneer or Dreamcatcher.
LikeLike
Was this the last Doppelmayr CTEC quad lift built with CTEC-style chairs?
LikeLike
No there was one in 2008.
LikeLike
This is one of those lifts where you have to be on your toes as a Lift Operator. On snowy days, this lift gets busy and has chairs full of snow. Usually only one operator at the bottom. You are bumping, brushing and making sure someone does not get taken out by the chair that comes flying around the corner. There is also a creek when you load, so you do not want to seat someone on a snowy chair as it is slippery and increases the risk of someone falling off. Also, between tower 1 and 2, the swing on the chairs is SCARY. The line is bouncing up and down and chairs are swinging back and fourth and side to side.This lift is not the most fun to load, or operate on snowy days. But overall, this is a great lift!
LikeLiked by 1 person
LikeLike