If the infrastructure was improved I feel it could turn a profit, but mammoth never made the investment.
Also they tried to close it one year 2013/14 i think
I believe there were other problems with the QMC besides the grips. One major issue was that they could never have the dual cables operate perfectly in sync, which would be a disaster!
Skied June today, it’s a nice mountain, great views of the Sierras and Mono Lake. Seems worthy of upgrading, only 20 minutes north of Mammoth, it could take some of the crowds. I hope they find the money to upgrade J1, very slow and you have to carry your skis down.
It is not just Rusty Gregory. This place has questionable economics in its current state no matter who is at the helm. The main driving population center for June/Mammoth is the greater LA area, and it is a 4.5+ hour drive from there to Mammoth. Why would anyone drive an additional 15+ min from there to June, where the terrain is not as good, the overall area is smaller, the base and village amenities are worse, and they receive less snow. June’s best bet at success would have to include a major overhaul to either build a village and make that a destination in itself or go all out for luxury like Deer Valley. Given that both of those options are extremely expensive and risky, there is no reason for anyone to undertake either project unless they are a millionaire or billionaire with money to blow and a passion for skiing. Until then, it will remain as it is.
Honestly, I am surprised June operates as much as it does already. In Vermont, Killington’s overshadowed neighbor, Pico, is in a similar situation and only operates Thurs-Mon plus holidays. This allows it to serve as an overflow for Killington when it is actually needed. Plus, the mountain can then be rented out for private events on other days to make extra money when it would otherwise be losing money while open. June would make more sense on the same operating schedule to similarly serve as Mammoth’s overflow.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that June is going to be a destination in and of itself anytime soon. I just think the idea that the lack of destination visits means they can’t fork over the cash for a Skytrac quad or to move a used detachable (maybe from Mammoth) to replace J-1 to be pretty silly. Plenty of small resorts––even those without a bed base––make strategic investments from time to time.
If I recall correctly, one of Rusty’s pitches after June was closed for a season was that it would become a “family-focused” resort like Smugglers Notch, as an alternative to the chaos and crowds of Mammoth. It’s a credible idea, but even if you decide to do 4- or 5-day operations as a tradeoff, you’ve still gotta invest a bit to make it happen. A free shuttle from Mammoth Lakes and a better up-/down-loading experience are table stakes.
In a vacuum, J-1 should be a gondola because it is heavily used in both directions. However, that is $10+ million. To scale down to a detachable quad would likely be $6-7+ million. A mere fixed-grip quad would only be $3+ million, but that is still a lot of money when the mountain cannot turn a profit. A shuttle from Mammoth Lakes would be a good, low-cost experiment at least. I mentioned Pico as a good comparison in an earlier post. Pico similarly has two detachable and four fixed-grip lifts, similarly has not received a new lift since its detachables in the 80s, and averages more annual visitors than June.
At the end of the day, Alterra has a finite amount of capital to invest. I would rather see a new lift at practically any of their other resorts over June. Plus, if June really is trying to emulate Smuggler’s Notch, that would mean they would retain a lift fleet of ancient doubles.
To my understanding, Dave McCoy bought June mountain with the hopes of making it a premium ski experience, similar to Deer Valley. However, people who go to Mammoth only want to ski Mammoth. It suffers from the same problem that Moonlight Basin and The Canyons did, not top of mind to the people who visit the area.
I recall that the original rationale for Dave McCoy purchasing June was to connect it to mammoth with a string of lifts. Plus I’m guessing they picked it up cheap at the time. But June has never gotten enough traffic to make a decent profit, or any profit. The original builder of June was a So Cal commercial developer who probably covered losses from his personal bank account. My neighbor where I grew up was a good friend of the June developer and I got to meet him for lunch one day up at June. Nice guy but when he sold out I think June lost whatever energy it had. The access lift also goes over a steep face which turns off families and beginners and typically doesn’t get enough snow to support the expert runs underneath. It’s a shame because there are some fun blue runs on the upper mountain but just not enough of them. I’ll bet Alterra would close it if they could get around the outcry from the local community. It may be cheaper to just buy out the local businesses and close them.
A lift connection between June and Mammoth is a hilariously optimistic idea. They are 6.45 miles apart as the crow flies at their closest points. There is also not a ton of interesting ski terrain directly between them, except for the San Joaquin Ridge and White Wing Mountain which is directly behind June and still over 5 miles from Mammoth. And even if they built out lifts along San Joaquin Ridge, that would end up being more terrain than both resorts combined just in itself.
This idea got me thinking about how a connection might work so let’s have a dumb thought experiment and say they wanted to just invest a gazillion dollars into the world’s longest single gondola to connect the two existing resorts. It would be over 34,000 feet long, well over double the current record which is Peak 2 Peak at Whistler at 14,457 feet long. Peak 2 Peak runs at a blazing 1,476 feet per minute and at that pace, the lift ride from Mammoth to June would take just under 24 minutes. This would save a whopping 3 whole minutes compared to driving between the resorts. And that’s just from their closest points. Lets say they wanted to do a Squaw/Alpine California Express style gondola between the base areas. The bottom of J1 at June to the Village at Mammoth is 10 miles on the dot or 52,800 feet. This would turn a 27 minute drive into nearly a 38 minute lift ride. Safe to say after doing a little math here, I think I understand why the connection was never made.
After some more research, the Bursa-Uludag Gondola in Turkey is a 3 stage monocable gondola that is just under 29,000 feet long which looks to be the current record holder. A gondola connecting Mammoth to June would still be nearly a mile longer than this.
Further research shows that I’m not very good at research! To be fair though, Leitner’s own website still claims the Bursa-Uludag to be the world’s longest. Maybe Alterra should just go ahead and build a Mammoth to June connection just to settle any doubt!
The one in Serbia also uses multiple sections with different haul ropes, doesn’t it? Not sure I’d qualify that as a single lift even if the cabins run through.
One cheap fix would to be to, move chair 25 from Mammoth and replace J-1. It would still be slow because of foot traffic, but have pretty good capacity and be comfortable. Down loading on J-1 feels like your sitting on a small piece of plywood hanging from a pipe.
Kirk may be on to something, but perhaps it may be better to place Chair 25 in the old QMC path. That way, two lifts would be available to shuttle guests to the Chalet; avoiding the issue if the access lift is down and there is no other way to get to the Chalet (thus, closing the entire mountain). If June Lake Village ever gets onboard with allowing lodging to be built at the old rodeo grounds, then Chair 25 can be moved to J1 and a gondola can be installed on the QMC path. They could have a gondola mid-station at the ticket office/parking lot and extend the gondola to the rodeo grounds where the lodging would be located.
I could see Alterra dropping Mammoth from Unlimited with blackout dates to 5 days on the Ikon Base pass and justifying that since June is unlimited and right next to it. A lot of people would bump up to the full pass and those who wouldn’t would fill up this place more than it already is.
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I would think they would still run J5 for the beginners and put snowmaking. Why was it abandoned? Bad snow or little use?
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Little use. In general, June has a tendency to lose money every year, and Mammoth has traditionally kept it open as a courtesy to the locals.
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If the infrastructure was improved I feel it could turn a profit, but mammoth never made the investment.
Also they tried to close it one year 2013/14 i think
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For years they’ve tried to find the water to justify upgrading J1, but to no avail. And they closed it for 2012/13.
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Is there any pictures of the funitel?
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Yah you can find them on skilifts.org or just by googling yan Qmc tram.
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Wonder why doppelmayr didn’t retrofit the Yan Qmc tram?
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I believe there were other problems with the QMC besides the grips. One major issue was that they could never have the dual cables operate perfectly in sync, which would be a disaster!
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Where did the funitel run to and from?
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Here is info and pics about the Funitel http://www.skilifts.org/old/images/resort_images/ca-june/qmc/YAN_QMC_accelerators.jpg
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Skied June today, it’s a nice mountain, great views of the Sierras and Mono Lake. Seems worthy of upgrading, only 20 minutes north of Mammoth, it could take some of the crowds. I hope they find the money to upgrade J1, very slow and you have to carry your skis down.
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Without additional water for snowmaking, Alterra is not going to dump money into lift upgrades at a ski area with already questionable economics.
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Well, certainly not with Rusty Gregory as CEO of Alterra…
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It is not just Rusty Gregory. This place has questionable economics in its current state no matter who is at the helm. The main driving population center for June/Mammoth is the greater LA area, and it is a 4.5+ hour drive from there to Mammoth. Why would anyone drive an additional 15+ min from there to June, where the terrain is not as good, the overall area is smaller, the base and village amenities are worse, and they receive less snow. June’s best bet at success would have to include a major overhaul to either build a village and make that a destination in itself or go all out for luxury like Deer Valley. Given that both of those options are extremely expensive and risky, there is no reason for anyone to undertake either project unless they are a millionaire or billionaire with money to blow and a passion for skiing. Until then, it will remain as it is.
Honestly, I am surprised June operates as much as it does already. In Vermont, Killington’s overshadowed neighbor, Pico, is in a similar situation and only operates Thurs-Mon plus holidays. This allows it to serve as an overflow for Killington when it is actually needed. Plus, the mountain can then be rented out for private events on other days to make extra money when it would otherwise be losing money while open. June would make more sense on the same operating schedule to similarly serve as Mammoth’s overflow.
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@skitheeast:
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that June is going to be a destination in and of itself anytime soon. I just think the idea that the lack of destination visits means they can’t fork over the cash for a Skytrac quad or to move a used detachable (maybe from Mammoth) to replace J-1 to be pretty silly. Plenty of small resorts––even those without a bed base––make strategic investments from time to time.
If I recall correctly, one of Rusty’s pitches after June was closed for a season was that it would become a “family-focused” resort like Smugglers Notch, as an alternative to the chaos and crowds of Mammoth. It’s a credible idea, but even if you decide to do 4- or 5-day operations as a tradeoff, you’ve still gotta invest a bit to make it happen. A free shuttle from Mammoth Lakes and a better up-/down-loading experience are table stakes.
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In a vacuum, J-1 should be a gondola because it is heavily used in both directions. However, that is $10+ million. To scale down to a detachable quad would likely be $6-7+ million. A mere fixed-grip quad would only be $3+ million, but that is still a lot of money when the mountain cannot turn a profit. A shuttle from Mammoth Lakes would be a good, low-cost experiment at least. I mentioned Pico as a good comparison in an earlier post. Pico similarly has two detachable and four fixed-grip lifts, similarly has not received a new lift since its detachables in the 80s, and averages more annual visitors than June.
At the end of the day, Alterra has a finite amount of capital to invest. I would rather see a new lift at practically any of their other resorts over June. Plus, if June really is trying to emulate Smuggler’s Notch, that would mean they would retain a lift fleet of ancient doubles.
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so what’s the deal with this place? the newest life is an 88 yan high-speed quad? seems like every lift on this mountain needs an upgrade….
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To my understanding, Dave McCoy bought June mountain with the hopes of making it a premium ski experience, similar to Deer Valley. However, people who go to Mammoth only want to ski Mammoth. It suffers from the same problem that Moonlight Basin and The Canyons did, not top of mind to the people who visit the area.
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June would be the nicest ski area in the Sierra, except that it is half an hour from Mammoth.
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Do they even have a shuttle? Seems like that would be an easy way to boost visitation.
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I recall that the original rationale for Dave McCoy purchasing June was to connect it to mammoth with a string of lifts. Plus I’m guessing they picked it up cheap at the time. But June has never gotten enough traffic to make a decent profit, or any profit. The original builder of June was a So Cal commercial developer who probably covered losses from his personal bank account. My neighbor where I grew up was a good friend of the June developer and I got to meet him for lunch one day up at June. Nice guy but when he sold out I think June lost whatever energy it had. The access lift also goes over a steep face which turns off families and beginners and typically doesn’t get enough snow to support the expert runs underneath. It’s a shame because there are some fun blue runs on the upper mountain but just not enough of them. I’ll bet Alterra would close it if they could get around the outcry from the local community. It may be cheaper to just buy out the local businesses and close them.
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A lift connection between June and Mammoth is a hilariously optimistic idea. They are 6.45 miles apart as the crow flies at their closest points. There is also not a ton of interesting ski terrain directly between them, except for the San Joaquin Ridge and White Wing Mountain which is directly behind June and still over 5 miles from Mammoth. And even if they built out lifts along San Joaquin Ridge, that would end up being more terrain than both resorts combined just in itself.
This idea got me thinking about how a connection might work so let’s have a dumb thought experiment and say they wanted to just invest a gazillion dollars into the world’s longest single gondola to connect the two existing resorts. It would be over 34,000 feet long, well over double the current record which is Peak 2 Peak at Whistler at 14,457 feet long. Peak 2 Peak runs at a blazing 1,476 feet per minute and at that pace, the lift ride from Mammoth to June would take just under 24 minutes. This would save a whopping 3 whole minutes compared to driving between the resorts. And that’s just from their closest points. Lets say they wanted to do a Squaw/Alpine California Express style gondola between the base areas. The bottom of J1 at June to the Village at Mammoth is 10 miles on the dot or 52,800 feet. This would turn a 27 minute drive into nearly a 38 minute lift ride. Safe to say after doing a little math here, I think I understand why the connection was never made.
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Peak 2 Peak isn’t the current record, Silver Mountain’s gondola is at least 16,000 feet long.
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FYI, in the 1990 ski movie “Dr. Strange Glove”, Dave McCoy speaks about the proposed San Joaquin expansion of Mammoth and scenes are filmed there.
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The currently longest gondola in the world is a Dopplmayr 3S in Vietnam at almost 26,000 feet.
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After some more research, the Bursa-Uludag Gondola in Turkey is a 3 stage monocable gondola that is just under 29,000 feet long which looks to be the current record holder. A gondola connecting Mammoth to June would still be nearly a mile longer than this.
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That too has been eclipsed by the Gold Gondola in Serbia. 9 km/29,500 feet.
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Further research shows that I’m not very good at research! To be fair though, Leitner’s own website still claims the Bursa-Uludag to be the world’s longest. Maybe Alterra should just go ahead and build a Mammoth to June connection just to settle any doubt!
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The one in Serbia also uses multiple sections with different haul ropes, doesn’t it? Not sure I’d qualify that as a single lift even if the cabins run through.
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One cheap fix would to be to, move chair 25 from Mammoth and replace J-1. It would still be slow because of foot traffic, but have pretty good capacity and be comfortable. Down loading on J-1 feels like your sitting on a small piece of plywood hanging from a pipe.
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Kirk may be on to something, but perhaps it may be better to place Chair 25 in the old QMC path. That way, two lifts would be available to shuttle guests to the Chalet; avoiding the issue if the access lift is down and there is no other way to get to the Chalet (thus, closing the entire mountain). If June Lake Village ever gets onboard with allowing lodging to be built at the old rodeo grounds, then Chair 25 can be moved to J1 and a gondola can be installed on the QMC path. They could have a gondola mid-station at the ticket office/parking lot and extend the gondola to the rodeo grounds where the lodging would be located.
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I could see Alterra dropping Mammoth from Unlimited with blackout dates to 5 days on the Ikon Base pass and justifying that since June is unlimited and right next to it. A lot of people would bump up to the full pass and those who wouldn’t would fill up this place more than it already is.
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here are some old video of June mountain
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Old QMC Tram Pictures
Canyon Lodge At Mammoth Mountain
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June Mountain, where every remaining lift has been rebuilt beyond recognition!
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