This Leitner-Poma six-pack replaced a Doppelmayr CLD-260 model quad in 2017.The bottom return terminal.Loading zone.View down from tower 9.Riding up.Nearing the top.View down the line.Breakover towers 17-20.Drive terminal arrival side.Top station with maintenance rail. Notice the Doppelmayr chair hanging out!Terminal underskin.The big breakover.View down line from near the summit.Depression tower.Middle section of the line.Upper lift line view.Tower 12.T4.Live overview.Side view of the bottom station.Lift overview.Nearing the top terminal.View down from the drive.Top station overview.Side view of the drive.Lower station seen from Lift 6.
I heard them referred to as the LPA-6-OC on Skilifts.org. OC stands for open carrier. There is also the LPA-6-CC, LPA-4-OC, and the LPA-4-CC. CC stands for closed carrier and those are what’s on the bubble chairs at Okemo and Mount Snow.
The LPA 4/6 CC and OC carriers have a different Hanger to Bail connection than this carrier. I believe these are classified as “EEZ II” carriers and they are indeed manufactured at Leitner’s Production Facility at Telfs, Austria. To my knowledge their first appearance in North America was on Kensho Super Chair at Breckenridge, CO in 2013.
The Kensho Superchair is the lift the person who said they were the LPA 6 OC was referring to. The Bluebird Express at Mount Snow is the first lift in North America with the CC. The other chair design LP offers is the Poma’s Omega design that debuted in 1996 and has been occasionally modified but only appeared this year on the Anakeesta pulse chondola and the fixed grip at Whitewater. All the detachables got the new chair design so they may only offer the Omega chair for fixed grips.
I believe the LPA terminal design is a North American product only. Grips are Leitner, and the line gear and towers were originally the same as was used with the Omega terminals. It’s been changed since then but I still think it’s more Poma than Leitner. Hopefully Peter can confirm.
I believe Leitner-Poma of America has also supplied LPA lifts in France, New Zealand and possibly Australia. You are right Collin that the the first LPA lift (High Noon) used the previous generation tower and chair design. The new carriers, whatever they are called, seem to be the new standard and are a step above Doppelmayr’s EJ in terms of comfort. The color options are a nice bonus too.
It’s still a North American product since those terminals were built by Leitner Poma of America and not the European Leitner or Poma. The only LP lifts in the east with chairs other than the Omega are the bubble chairs at Mount Snow and Okemo, and they are very comfortable. Hopefully an eastern ski area gets the new non bubble chair design this year. The most recent non bubble LP lift in the east is the Adirondack Express 2 at Gore which was built in 2014 when they only offered the new design on 6 packs.
One thing I don’t like about the LPA terminals is that I think the tire bank skins are plastic which is not as high quality as Doppelmayr’s all metal construction. Of course you can get the all wooden skins but only Breckenridge and Okemo have paid for them so far.
Not plastic. LPA uses Red Steel purchased from American companies that is then shaped into terminal contours than sand blasted. Towers and terminal pylons get galvanized while the acceleration and deceleration sections get sandblasted, giving it that so called “plastic” texture.
The skins you are thinking of are a plastic aluminum laminated product that has some advantages such as it weighs 1/2 as much and does just as good job, though if I was buying I’d go for the wood skin it just looks good and deadens sound better.
The LPA terminals are definitely a GJ-only product. Leitner and Poma both produce their own versions of the terminals- Multix from Grenoble and whatever Leitner calls theirs- in Europe. They do share terminal parts such as tyre conveyors, tension carriages, and drive systems, but they have separate line gear as we do here in the States. The North America LPA terminals share only the grip compression ramp and bubble/gondola door actuators with their European counterparts. I would like to have Poma line gear still available as an option; I’ve always thought the original Poma 450 assemblies I’ve worked with were superior to the current ones designed here but I don’t believe you can even spec them.
As for the carriers, the ones pictured here are the same as our Eagle lift which are stamped ‘EEZII’. Our bubbles say LPA-CC on their plaques.
Could have been me that made that statement about Kensho and as has happened in the past, I was wrong. It was the first time I had seen it and didn’t notice the difference in the connection….
Picture #10 is similar to Sunrise Express at Stratton (CTEC Six pack), where there is still a single Fixed grip Poma service carrier from the Old Sunbowl quad. Its in a pretty bad spot, too, because on the days when they don’t put up liftline ropes, it blocks a small shortcut from Lower Downeaster onto the lift. I don’t have a picture unfortunately.
No, CLD-260 is the model of the entire system. I believe it stands for CLD (chair lift detachable) – 260 (26.0 meters long?). They used DS-104 grips. The chairs were either early EJs, the ’80s style bail carriers, or EJ bubble chairs.
This lift effectively replaced the last of the old 1980s lifts to run to Patrol Headquarters, with the High Noon Express (2010) and Mountaintop Express (2013) having been the first to get upgraded.
The towers on the six pack are much lower in height than the original quad, resulting in several combi towers where there used to be tall support towers. In addition, there’s no combi tower on the final cliff climb. And the breakover has more towers than the original.
Going back to Leitner-Poma for the Northwoods Express means Vail’s the only ski area in Colorado with multiple high speed six packs to have different manufacturers for their six packs (since the first two six packs were Doppelmayrs).
Just out of curiosity with the Doppelmayr chair on the maintenance rail… what would happen if you put a Doppelmayr chair on a Leitner-Poma lift without changing anything?
Carnage. The old DS grips from the first detach are incompatible with the Leitner rail and attach/detach system. Although nothing might happen; the tire height in the Leitner terminals might be taller than the traction plate in the old Doppelmayrs and the chair might not even move.
Ski patrol uses the chair there for evac practice, it’s just a leftover from a removed lift. The chair doesn’t actually have a grip on it, just a dummy set of wheels to keep it hanging. To answer your question though, if it had a grip, it just isn’t the right size to operate on that lift. The tires aren’t set at the right hight to move the traction plate, the compression rail isn’t set at the correct hight to completely open (or close) a DS style grip, the jaw isn’t the correct size for that rope. More specifically, if you tried to feed it onto the line, the tires would either be so high above the traction plate they wouldn’t even touch the grip to move it, or they would be so low it would create too much friction and stall the chair out in its place. Basically you wouldn’t even get it into the system.
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Does anyone know the model name of these chairs? I think they are manufactured by Leitner in Telfs, Austria but not sure what they’re called.
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I heard them referred to as the LPA-6-OC on Skilifts.org. OC stands for open carrier. There is also the LPA-6-CC, LPA-4-OC, and the LPA-4-CC. CC stands for closed carrier and those are what’s on the bubble chairs at Okemo and Mount Snow.
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The LPA 4/6 CC and OC carriers have a different Hanger to Bail connection than this carrier. I believe these are classified as “EEZ II” carriers and they are indeed manufactured at Leitner’s Production Facility at Telfs, Austria. To my knowledge their first appearance in North America was on Kensho Super Chair at Breckenridge, CO in 2013.
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The Kensho Superchair is the lift the person who said they were the LPA 6 OC was referring to. The Bluebird Express at Mount Snow is the first lift in North America with the CC. The other chair design LP offers is the Poma’s Omega design that debuted in 1996 and has been occasionally modified but only appeared this year on the Anakeesta pulse chondola and the fixed grip at Whitewater. All the detachables got the new chair design so they may only offer the Omega chair for fixed grips.
I believe the LPA terminal design is a North American product only. Grips are Leitner, and the line gear and towers were originally the same as was used with the Omega terminals. It’s been changed since then but I still think it’s more Poma than Leitner. Hopefully Peter can confirm.
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I believe Leitner-Poma of America has also supplied LPA lifts in France, New Zealand and possibly Australia. You are right Collin that the the first LPA lift (High Noon) used the previous generation tower and chair design. The new carriers, whatever they are called, seem to be the new standard and are a step above Doppelmayr’s EJ in terms of comfort. The color options are a nice bonus too.
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It’s still a North American product since those terminals were built by Leitner Poma of America and not the European Leitner or Poma. The only LP lifts in the east with chairs other than the Omega are the bubble chairs at Mount Snow and Okemo, and they are very comfortable. Hopefully an eastern ski area gets the new non bubble chair design this year. The most recent non bubble LP lift in the east is the Adirondack Express 2 at Gore which was built in 2014 when they only offered the new design on 6 packs.
One thing I don’t like about the LPA terminals is that I think the tire bank skins are plastic which is not as high quality as Doppelmayr’s all metal construction. Of course you can get the all wooden skins but only Breckenridge and Okemo have paid for them so far.
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Copper Mountain paid for the wood skins on American Eagle and American Flyer.
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Not plastic. LPA uses Red Steel purchased from American companies that is then shaped into terminal contours than sand blasted. Towers and terminal pylons get galvanized while the acceleration and deceleration sections get sandblasted, giving it that so called “plastic” texture.
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The skins you are thinking of are a plastic aluminum laminated product that has some advantages such as it weighs 1/2 as much and does just as good job, though if I was buying I’d go for the wood skin it just looks good and deadens sound better.
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Any pictures of the LPA lifts in France?
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The LPA terminals are definitely a GJ-only product. Leitner and Poma both produce their own versions of the terminals- Multix from Grenoble and whatever Leitner calls theirs- in Europe. They do share terminal parts such as tyre conveyors, tension carriages, and drive systems, but they have separate line gear as we do here in the States. The North America LPA terminals share only the grip compression ramp and bubble/gondola door actuators with their European counterparts. I would like to have Poma line gear still available as an option; I’ve always thought the original Poma 450 assemblies I’ve worked with were superior to the current ones designed here but I don’t believe you can even spec them.
As for the carriers, the ones pictured here are the same as our Eagle lift which are stamped ‘EEZII’. Our bubbles say LPA-CC on their plaques.
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Could have been me that made that statement about Kensho and as has happened in the past, I was wrong. It was the first time I had seen it and didn’t notice the difference in the connection….
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Picture #10 is similar to Sunrise Express at Stratton (CTEC Six pack), where there is still a single Fixed grip Poma service carrier from the Old Sunbowl quad. Its in a pretty bad spot, too, because on the days when they don’t put up liftline ropes, it blocks a small shortcut from Lower Downeaster onto the lift. I don’t have a picture unfortunately.
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omg. we get it. you ski at stratton
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Also on the first picture. CLD-260? That must be a HUGE chair. I know. Its a older doppelmayr chair model.
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No, CLD-260 is the model of the entire system. I believe it stands for CLD (chair lift detachable) – 260 (26.0 meters long?). They used DS-104 grips. The chairs were either early EJs, the ’80s style bail carriers, or EJ bubble chairs.
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260 refers to the gearbox size.
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This lift effectively replaced the last of the old 1980s lifts to run to Patrol Headquarters, with the High Noon Express (2010) and Mountaintop Express (2013) having been the first to get upgraded.
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The towers on the six pack are much lower in height than the original quad, resulting in several combi towers where there used to be tall support towers. In addition, there’s no combi tower on the final cliff climb. And the breakover has more towers than the original.
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Going back to Leitner-Poma for the Northwoods Express means Vail’s the only ski area in Colorado with multiple high speed six packs to have different manufacturers for their six packs (since the first two six packs were Doppelmayrs).
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Does Leitner-Poma give the option for LPA chairs for their newer lifts or do they all just come standard?
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They are standard. Resorts do have the option of going with Omega chairs if they want, as Hunter did with Northern Express.
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Here are some pics of the big breakover at the top back when this lift was a riblet double: https://mountainscholar.org/bitstream/handle/11124/9405/R1167.jpg https://mountainscholar.org/bitstream/handle/11124/9449/R1171.jpg
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The beige paint on Northwoods is about the same shade that you see on Breck’s Riblet lifts now.
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Just out of curiosity with the Doppelmayr chair on the maintenance rail… what would happen if you put a Doppelmayr chair on a Leitner-Poma lift without changing anything?
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Carnage. The old DS grips from the first detach are incompatible with the Leitner rail and attach/detach system. Although nothing might happen; the tire height in the Leitner terminals might be taller than the traction plate in the old Doppelmayrs and the chair might not even move.
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Ski patrol uses the chair there for evac practice, it’s just a leftover from a removed lift. The chair doesn’t actually have a grip on it, just a dummy set of wheels to keep it hanging. To answer your question though, if it had a grip, it just isn’t the right size to operate on that lift. The tires aren’t set at the right hight to move the traction plate, the compression rail isn’t set at the correct hight to completely open (or close) a DS style grip, the jaw isn’t the correct size for that rope. More specifically, if you tried to feed it onto the line, the tires would either be so high above the traction plate they wouldn’t even touch the grip to move it, or they would be so low it would create too much friction and stall the chair out in its place. Basically you wouldn’t even get it into the system.
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The third tower has recently been shaking quite a bit due to a lot of load when the lift has a full line. I hope they notice.
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How does the Epic Mix ticketing system work?
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