Wrong place, but there are dopps that can run at 1100. Timberline at Copper Mountain is an example, although it doesn’t go that fast very much anymore.
I bet many of Snowmass’s HSQs run at 1,100 fpm due to their long distances. (Sheer Bliss is a mid-mountain lift, and it covers a distance almost as long as Keystone’s Summit Express. Two Creeks is longer than almost any other high speed quad in the state except for, I think, Sunshine at Telluride)
1000 is probably the max speed they run it at, but I definitely trust the spreadsheet, which says that it is capable of 1200 should they want/need it to run that fast
Interesting! I’m pretty sure my data sheet is the original as-built; maybe you got an early design parameter that didn’t pan out. I can say with the lift speed potentiometer turned all the way up we see speed peak at about 1025 and then settle at 1000. Thanks for answering, Peter.
Snowmass must really pride itself on having ultra-long detachables, as the only one on the mountain that’s shorter than 5,000 feet is Sam’s Knob at 3,970 feet. The second shortest is Coney Glade (5,056), then High Alpine (5,256), Alpine Springs (7,200), Elk Camp (7,605), Big Burn (7,910), Sheer Bliss (9,242), Two Creeks (9,835) and the Village Express (10,074). The only places in Colorado that could rival Snowmass in having a detachable lift fleet made almost entirely of lifts that are at least a mile long are Breck (where the only detachable shorter than a mile in length is Imperial) and Beaver Creek (where the shortest high speed quad is 4,600 feet long).
Now that the Big Burn HSS has been installed I wonder what is next for Snowmass. Feels like they will need to replace Coney Glade in next few years – likely with a low capacity HSQ (1200 PPH). Long range plan is to eventually install a very long HSQ on Burnt Mountain. Personally I would like to see them reinstall Naked Lady as a low capacity HSQ to complement Alpine Springs.
Also just wanted to note that before the Burnt mountain HSQ goes in there will be a fixed grip lift called Naked Man that will go from Bull Run to the summit of burnt mountain until the HSQ is installed. It will service the trail pod for the HSQ which will be cut before the HSQ goes in. It will have a vertical rise of 235 feet and a capacity of 1,200. It could either be a surface lift on the same alignment with a vertical rise of 235 feet and a capacity of 500.
I am hoping they replace Campground with a detachable quad going up to Sam’s like the original alignment. However, I do not think there are plans for that.
Technically, it is an Inclined Elevator, not a Funicular. A funicular would have 2 cars that were counter opposed. Wonkavator- a term of endearment assigned by Snowmass Lift Maintenance!
Hey, I found the missing tower counts just by looking at the existing photos.
(I had to zoom in really far for the Elk Camp chairlift so that one might be incorrect)
Just spent a few days skiing here. Amazing mountain with a really impressive lift fleet! Some impressions:
– Elk Camp and Alpine Springs could stand capacity upgrades. They seem to be the only lifts that generate lines regularly. Given the varied ability levels utilizing these lifts, and their age, HSS replacements with wider spacing seems appropriate.
– Coney Glade, though very old, seems redundant and not a replacement priority. Perhaps in an adjusted alignment, but as currently built I found no real reason to use it.
– High Alpine and Big Burn are a couple of beautiful new LPA machines, really nicely engineered and very comfortable rides. Noticed the new safety bar model removes the rear bar (that lift attendants could use to lower the restraint bar for kids if they wanted to). Anyone know the reasoning behind this evolved model?
– Any conceivable way to speed up the lift line at Cirque? Between wind exposure and the unique properties of this lift, there may be no reasonable options, but the long and slow moving queue is a real turnoff when there is so much easily accessible terrain elsewhere.
– 3:30pm closing time at some key lifts including Alpine Springs (often necessary for east-west and west-east late day transit), Sheer Bliss, Sam’s, and High Alpine seems a little aggressive in late March afternoon daylight. Would like to see at least an extra 15 minutes to wrap the day up and get back to base.
I wouldn’t consider Coney Glade redundant considering that it laps the terrain park and provides intermediates a way to transit west from Alpine Springs / Big Burn / Sheer Bliss to Sam’s Knob without going down to the Village Express.
Elk Camp could definitely use more chairs at minimum, although a capacity upgrade wouldn’t be out of the question.
I guess I shouldn’t say Coney Glade is 100% redundant, rather my point was that upgrades to Alpine Springs and Elk Camp should be higher priority than replacing Coney Glade. The lower portion of Village Express decently serves the terrain parks and transit needs, even if Coney is a little more convenient.
I’ll speak directly to your comment about the comfort bar (it does not restrain anything). The current LPA design eliminates the counterweight they used to have in favour of springs that make raising the bar easier. While I did not see any maintenance-related failures of the older design, the new one is definitely more user-friendly and I’ll support it in that regard. It’s not any more difficult for the lifties to lower the bar on kids, I’ve seen them do it (and they usually do so with a flourish as they would have with the older style).
As for the Cirque- you’ve neatly explained why they can’t speed up the queue. Since I can’t turn off my inner lift mechanic even when skiing other areas, I thought about this the last time I was there and I don’t see anything else they could do.
I agree that Snowmass is a great mountain. I deal with the three-hour drive from my place (only an hour in the summer, but whatever) to ski there.
I agree that Coney Glade is pretty useless in its existing alignment. I think lowering the bottom terminal downhill to where Banzai and Dawdler intersect to allow that whole lower pod to be lapped is a good idea.
Donald: Intermediates are not the main demographic at Sam’s Knob, as it is mostly an advanced pod. However, if they want to go over without going all the way down, they can access Lunchline from the top of Sheer Bliss/Big Burn and avoid both the bottom and Coney Glade.
Would replacing both Sam’s Knob and Campground with one lift be feasible? It seems like that area is all one big pod, and if there’s only room for two detachables on top of Sam’s Knob that seems like it would work?
I haven’t been to Snowmass so idk what makes the most sense, just playing armchair architect
I think this area is split because the low elevation of the campground base area causing snow coverage issues and Sams being a pretty solid pod on its own.
The mid-station of Village Express is unload only. The current setup takes pressure off the Village Express by allowing skiers to transit from Big Burn to the top of Sam’s Knob (lunchline to the Sam’s Knob lift) or simply lap that terrain without having to ski all the way to the bottom of Village Express.
I believe every detach lift at Snowmass except Big Burn, High Alpine, and Alpine Springs has a new black paint scheme on the terminals to match the new Hero’s lift at Ajax.
The new lift line can be seen from https://limelighthotels.roundshot.com/snowmass/#/ (the roundshot camera atop the limelight hotel in the base area). It has a somewhat obstructed view of the entire lift line, but it is the best one I have found so far.
If anyone’s wondering what happened to the Funnel double chair, it was sold to a town in Pakistan, where it operates as a scenic chairlift. It’s currently Pakistan’s longest chairlift. It’s operating as an up-and-over lift
To fill out the spreadsheet, Coney Express has 119 chairs, 28 towers, top drive, dual tension. Fun fact: hold-down tower 7 sheave assemblies are canted about 7 degrees to provide about a 1 degree turn. This design element was the primary reason for the “comfort chair” specification.
Does anyone know why the Wood Run lift was removed? Seems as though the direct access from the base to the Alpine Springs pod would have been something worth preserving.
When it was removed in 2005, it was a 32 year old Riblet that almost exclusively served the Wood Road homeowners. Snowmass was going through major changes at that time with the development of Base Village. The VX and SkyCab went in in 2005, and the Elk Camp Gondola went in the following year. Many of the operational facilities had to move from the old Fanny Hill base to other areas on the mountain. The vehicle maintenance facility and snowcat ops moved to the top of Two Creeks (you can see it off to the right as you get off the lift, or from the gondola as you fly by), and the boneyard/year-round outdoor storage for most departments moved to the area where the Wood Run unload terminal was.
Today, you can access Alpine Springs with one lift ride from any point on the mountain except from the Campground pod.
Yes, that looks about right. For some reason I thought the Wood Run bottom terminal was at the bottom of Adams Ave, just above the current patrol and lift ops locker room. My memories of the base area from around ’00-’02 are pretty fuzzy now! You can find some photos of the lift here:
close. CX is 19, Meadows is 14, cirque is 0 (or 28, but we call it 0), and we don’t use numbers for carpets, scooper, or pines platters. Also, the Burlingame carpet has been moved to assay hill, extended, covered, and now called assay carpet
Here are all the correct lift numbers – number that we call them and their CPTSB numbers, all of which are different. We call them by their historic/original numbers, even though they have all been replaced and some have been renamed/realigned from the original lift. CPTSB gives each new install a new designator
Lift # – CPTSB # – Name
0 – SM-028 – Cirque (to be replaced summer 2025 and will get a new CPTSB#)
01 – SM-035 – Sky Cab
03 – SM-023 – Sam’s Knob
04 – SM-047 – Big Burn
05 – SM-034 – Campground
06 – SM-040 – Assay Hill Quad
07 – SM-039 – Elk Camp Gondola
08 – SM-024 – Alpine Springs
09 – SM-044 – Sheer Bliss
10 – SM-026 – Elk Camp Chair (to be replaced summer 2025 and will get a new CPTSB#)
12 – SM-046 – High Alpine
14 – SM-041 – Meadows
16 – SM-027 – Two Creeks
18 – SM-036 – Village Express
19 – SM-048 – Coney Glade
33 – SM-033 – Scooper
S3 – SM-038 – Assay Hill Carpet (formerly Burlingame)
S4 – SM-042 – Base Village East / Treehouse Carpet
The Pines incline elevator goes from a point at the top of the upper Pines platter to a yet higher point that provides access to the 13 or so houses on Spruce Ridge Ln. You can see it in the background of one of Peter’s upper Pines platter photos. The Tom Blake Trail passes under it, so it’s pretty easy to check it out in the summer.
An inclined elevator is much like a funicular, except it has only one car and track. The Shadow Mountain Condos, adjacent to lift 1A, also has a small incline elevator hidden on the west side of the property.
Lift Blog 
Why can’t Dopplemayr lifts run at 1100 fpm?
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Seeing as there are no Doppelmayrs in the Aspen/Snowmass area, this is probably not the place to ask that.
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There used to be a dopp platter on buttermilk.
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Wrong place, but there are dopps that can run at 1100. Timberline at Copper Mountain is an example, although it doesn’t go that fast very much anymore.
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Also Summit Express at Keystone
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To add on to the list Gem Lake Express at Big White.
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I bet many of Snowmass’s HSQs run at 1,100 fpm due to their long distances. (Sheer Bliss is a mid-mountain lift, and it covers a distance almost as long as Keystone’s Summit Express. Two Creeks is longer than almost any other high speed quad in the state except for, I think, Sunshine at Telluride)
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Sheer Bliss is rated for 1200
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None of Snowmass’ HS lifts normally run at 1100 fps. Most are rated for 1000, but run between 850-950 fps
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It be better asking this question at Big Sky. Last time I have been here, the poma quads have been not running at full speed.
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Why is Sheer Blisses design speed so fast? Lengh?
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Sheer Bliss covers a distance that’s akin to that of the Beaver Run SuperChair, as in more than 9,000 feet.
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Full speed on Sheer Bliss is 1,000 fpm
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1000 is probably the max speed they run it at, but I definitely trust the spreadsheet, which says that it is capable of 1200 should they want/need it to run that fast
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It’s on the internet, so it must be true! I’ll grab a sharpie and correct the data sheet in my maintenance manual for that lift tomorrow…
Question I have is: where did Peter get the 1200 fpm figure?
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From the manufacturer at the time of construction. They sometimes make mistakes reporting and lifts sometimes get modified over time.
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Interesting! I’m pretty sure my data sheet is the original as-built; maybe you got an early design parameter that didn’t pan out. I can say with the lift speed potentiometer turned all the way up we see speed peak at about 1025 and then settle at 1000. Thanks for answering, Peter.
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AO, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you worked at Snowmass
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No worries, I really hadn’t been clear about that
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I watch your youtube videos.
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Snowmass must really pride itself on having ultra-long detachables, as the only one on the mountain that’s shorter than 5,000 feet is Sam’s Knob at 3,970 feet. The second shortest is Coney Glade (5,056), then High Alpine (5,256), Alpine Springs (7,200), Elk Camp (7,605), Big Burn (7,910), Sheer Bliss (9,242), Two Creeks (9,835) and the Village Express (10,074). The only places in Colorado that could rival Snowmass in having a detachable lift fleet made almost entirely of lifts that are at least a mile long are Breck (where the only detachable shorter than a mile in length is Imperial) and Beaver Creek (where the shortest high speed quad is 4,600 feet long).
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The Village Express’s missing stats are 34 towers and 169 chairs.
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Now that the Big Burn HSS has been installed I wonder what is next for Snowmass. Feels like they will need to replace Coney Glade in next few years – likely with a low capacity HSQ (1200 PPH). Long range plan is to eventually install a very long HSQ on Burnt Mountain. Personally I would like to see them reinstall Naked Lady as a low capacity HSQ to complement Alpine Springs.
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I wonder if Burnt Mountain getting a HSQ will necessitate a capacity upgrade for Two Creeks.
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What would be the lift line of the Burnt mountain HSQ?
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Take a look at the first page of this
Click to access fseprd479244.pdf
Full Master Plan is available at
Click to access fseprd479240.pdf
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The image with Burnt mountain lift on it is really stretched out and I can’t find it on the master plan. Does anyone know where it is?
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Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. Two Creeks isn’t a major access point; most folks go through the village via the Elk Camp Gondola.
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Also just wanted to note that before the Burnt mountain HSQ goes in there will be a fixed grip lift called Naked Man that will go from Bull Run to the summit of burnt mountain until the HSQ is installed. It will service the trail pod for the HSQ which will be cut before the HSQ goes in. It will have a vertical rise of 235 feet and a capacity of 1,200. It could either be a surface lift on the same alignment with a vertical rise of 235 feet and a capacity of 500.
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I am hoping they replace Campground with a detachable quad going up to Sam’s like the original alignment. However, I do not think there are plans for that.
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Not enough space for a top terminal up there.
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By Two Creeks on East Branch there is another platter. It is for real estate use so I’m not sure if Peter would take pictures of it.
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A lift I didn’t know existed. I’ll check it out next time I’m in the area.
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If anyone wants the coordinates they are 39°12’35’’N 106°55’17’’W
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You can make out the platter on Google StreetView here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2108385,-106.9173736,3a,21.2y,249.04h,87.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz94V9ezPGACoydKm9znkIA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dz94V9ezPGACoydKm9znkIA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D188.7106%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
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Actually two more Poma platters I had missed. Now in the database.
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There’s also a vernacular (aka wonkavator) within the Pines HOA
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Technically, it is an Inclined Elevator, not a Funicular. A funicular would have 2 cars that were counter opposed. Wonkavator- a term of endearment assigned by Snowmass Lift Maintenance!
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Thank you Michael. One of those details I should know 😉
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Click to access 1641683184.pdf
Here is a map of the pines
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Hey, I found the missing tower counts just by looking at the existing photos.
(I had to zoom in really far for the Elk Camp chairlift so that one might be incorrect)
Cirque – 14
Coney Glade – 17
Elk Camp – 25
Elk Camp Gondola – 33
High Alpine – 15
Sky Cab – 7
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Just spent a few days skiing here. Amazing mountain with a really impressive lift fleet! Some impressions:
– Elk Camp and Alpine Springs could stand capacity upgrades. They seem to be the only lifts that generate lines regularly. Given the varied ability levels utilizing these lifts, and their age, HSS replacements with wider spacing seems appropriate.
– Coney Glade, though very old, seems redundant and not a replacement priority. Perhaps in an adjusted alignment, but as currently built I found no real reason to use it.
– High Alpine and Big Burn are a couple of beautiful new LPA machines, really nicely engineered and very comfortable rides. Noticed the new safety bar model removes the rear bar (that lift attendants could use to lower the restraint bar for kids if they wanted to). Anyone know the reasoning behind this evolved model?
– Any conceivable way to speed up the lift line at Cirque? Between wind exposure and the unique properties of this lift, there may be no reasonable options, but the long and slow moving queue is a real turnoff when there is so much easily accessible terrain elsewhere.
– 3:30pm closing time at some key lifts including Alpine Springs (often necessary for east-west and west-east late day transit), Sheer Bliss, Sam’s, and High Alpine seems a little aggressive in late March afternoon daylight. Would like to see at least an extra 15 minutes to wrap the day up and get back to base.
What a great mountain.
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I wouldn’t consider Coney Glade redundant considering that it laps the terrain park and provides intermediates a way to transit west from Alpine Springs / Big Burn / Sheer Bliss to Sam’s Knob without going down to the Village Express.
Elk Camp could definitely use more chairs at minimum, although a capacity upgrade wouldn’t be out of the question.
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I guess I shouldn’t say Coney Glade is 100% redundant, rather my point was that upgrades to Alpine Springs and Elk Camp should be higher priority than replacing Coney Glade. The lower portion of Village Express decently serves the terrain parks and transit needs, even if Coney is a little more convenient.
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And any conceivable expansions to Burnt Mountain should also be priority.
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I’ll speak directly to your comment about the comfort bar (it does not restrain anything). The current LPA design eliminates the counterweight they used to have in favour of springs that make raising the bar easier. While I did not see any maintenance-related failures of the older design, the new one is definitely more user-friendly and I’ll support it in that regard. It’s not any more difficult for the lifties to lower the bar on kids, I’ve seen them do it (and they usually do so with a flourish as they would have with the older style).
As for the Cirque- you’ve neatly explained why they can’t speed up the queue. Since I can’t turn off my inner lift mechanic even when skiing other areas, I thought about this the last time I was there and I don’t see anything else they could do.
I agree that Snowmass is a great mountain. I deal with the three-hour drive from my place (only an hour in the summer, but whatever) to ski there.
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I agree that Coney Glade is pretty useless in its existing alignment. I think lowering the bottom terminal downhill to where Banzai and Dawdler intersect to allow that whole lower pod to be lapped is a good idea.
Donald: Intermediates are not the main demographic at Sam’s Knob, as it is mostly an advanced pod. However, if they want to go over without going all the way down, they can access Lunchline from the top of Sheer Bliss/Big Burn and avoid both the bottom and Coney Glade.
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Would replacing both Sam’s Knob and Campground with one lift be feasible? It seems like that area is all one big pod, and if there’s only room for two detachables on top of Sam’s Knob that seems like it would work?
I haven’t been to Snowmass so idk what makes the most sense, just playing armchair architect
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I think this area is split because the low elevation of the campground base area causing snow coverage issues and Sams being a pretty solid pod on its own.
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The mid-station of Village Express is unload only. The current setup takes pressure off the Village Express by allowing skiers to transit from Big Burn to the top of Sam’s Knob (lunchline to the Sam’s Knob lift) or simply lap that terrain without having to ski all the way to the bottom of Village Express.
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I believe every detach lift at Snowmass except Big Burn, High Alpine, and Alpine Springs has a new black paint scheme on the terminals to match the new Hero’s lift at Ajax.
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Terminals have been getting painted over the past three summers. I’d say Hero’s is factory dark grey to match the recent (three years ago) rebrand.
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What happened to coney glade?
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It is being replaced and renamed this Summer. Destruction and construction have already begun.
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This site has some cams that show the partially dismantled bottom terminal.
https://www.coloradowebcam.net/camera/snowmass-ski-resort-webcam-colorado-ski-resort-webcams
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The new lift line can be seen from https://limelighthotels.roundshot.com/snowmass/#/ (the roundshot camera atop the limelight hotel in the base area). It has a somewhat obstructed view of the entire lift line, but it is the best one I have found so far.
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If anyone’s wondering what happened to the Funnel double chair, it was sold to a town in Pakistan, where it operates as a scenic chairlift. It’s currently Pakistan’s longest chairlift. It’s operating as an up-and-over lift
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https://youtu.be/GhMsMFOfRwo
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Dang how do you know that?
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So cool to see the new Coney Express Operating! Hope you get good pictures!
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To fill out the spreadsheet, Coney Express has 119 chairs, 28 towers, top drive, dual tension. Fun fact: hold-down tower 7 sheave assemblies are canted about 7 degrees to provide about a 1 degree turn. This design element was the primary reason for the “comfort chair” specification.
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Does anyone know why the Wood Run lift was removed? Seems as though the direct access from the base to the Alpine Springs pod would have been something worth preserving.
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When it was removed in 2005, it was a 32 year old Riblet that almost exclusively served the Wood Road homeowners. Snowmass was going through major changes at that time with the development of Base Village. The VX and SkyCab went in in 2005, and the Elk Camp Gondola went in the following year. Many of the operational facilities had to move from the old Fanny Hill base to other areas on the mountain. The vehicle maintenance facility and snowcat ops moved to the top of Two Creeks (you can see it off to the right as you get off the lift, or from the gondola as you fly by), and the boneyard/year-round outdoor storage for most departments moved to the area where the Wood Run unload terminal was.
Today, you can access Alpine Springs with one lift ride from any point on the mountain except from the Campground pod.
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Thanks for the reply. Looking at old Google Earth images, it appears as though the bottom terminal was about where One Snowmass is now.
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Yes, that looks about right. For some reason I thought the Wood Run bottom terminal was at the bottom of Adams Ave, just above the current patrol and lift ops locker room. My memories of the base area from around ’00-’02 are pretty fuzzy now! You can find some photos of the lift here:
http://www.skilifts.org/old/images/resort_images/co-snowmass/woodrun/woodrun.htm
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What happened to wood run? most other lifts removed were sold.
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Possible lift numbers:
1 Sky cab
2 Coney Express
3 Sams Knob
4 Big Burn
5 Campground
6 Assay Hill
7 Elk Camp Gondola
8 Alpine Springs
9 Sheer Bliss
10 Elk Camp
11 Scooper
12 High Alpine
13 Treehouse carpet
14 Burlingame carpet
15 Meadows
16 Two Creeks
17 Meadows carpet
18 Village Express
19 Cirque
20 Bear Bottom /Tubing Carpet
Bonus:
21Pines upper
22 Pines lower
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close. CX is 19, Meadows is 14, cirque is 0 (or 28, but we call it 0), and we don’t use numbers for carpets, scooper, or pines platters. Also, the Burlingame carpet has been moved to assay hill, extended, covered, and now called assay carpet
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Here are all the correct lift numbers – number that we call them and their CPTSB numbers, all of which are different. We call them by their historic/original numbers, even though they have all been replaced and some have been renamed/realigned from the original lift. CPTSB gives each new install a new designator
Lift # – CPTSB # – Name
0 – SM-028 – Cirque (to be replaced summer 2025 and will get a new CPTSB#)
01 – SM-035 – Sky Cab
03 – SM-023 – Sam’s Knob
04 – SM-047 – Big Burn
05 – SM-034 – Campground
06 – SM-040 – Assay Hill Quad
07 – SM-039 – Elk Camp Gondola
08 – SM-024 – Alpine Springs
09 – SM-044 – Sheer Bliss
10 – SM-026 – Elk Camp Chair (to be replaced summer 2025 and will get a new CPTSB#)
12 – SM-046 – High Alpine
14 – SM-041 – Meadows
16 – SM-027 – Two Creeks
18 – SM-036 – Village Express
19 – SM-048 – Coney Glade
33 – SM-033 – Scooper
S3 – SM-038 – Assay Hill Carpet (formerly Burlingame)
S4 – SM-042 – Base Village East / Treehouse Carpet
S5 – SM-043 – Meadows South #5 Carpet
S6 – SM-045 – Bear Bottom Carpet
SLNW – SL-001 – Lower Pines Platter
SLSE – SL-002 – Upper Pines Platter
SLEL – SL-003 – Pines Elevator
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Thanks for the real list! I did a similar lift on the other 3 mountains also. And what is the Pines Elevator?
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The Pines incline elevator goes from a point at the top of the upper Pines platter to a yet higher point that provides access to the 13 or so houses on Spruce Ridge Ln. You can see it in the background of one of Peter’s upper Pines platter photos. The Tom Blake Trail passes under it, so it’s pretty easy to check it out in the summer.
An inclined elevator is much like a funicular, except it has only one car and track. The Shadow Mountain Condos, adjacent to lift 1A, also has a small incline elevator hidden on the west side of the property.
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@Peter, the new Elk Camp 6 is top drive, bottom tension, with 22 towers and 123 chairs
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