A yan gondola I didn’t know they had one here! I thought only at keystone and the Qmc Tran at June. The one yan double here also from 1968! Would of been cool to see since it was one of the first!
Yan built a few gondolas, but only one remains which is located at the water park in Denver, Colorado which was relocated from Circus Circus, Las Vegas. The other gondola which was never a real gondola was built at the Yan facility in Carson when Yan was developing its detachable technology.
Peter has some pictures of that last remaining “Yandola” on this site (link below). Although called a gondola, this lift is essentially a jig-back tram with two groups of gondola cabins instead of two tram cabins, much like the new Royal Gorge Gondola in Colorado. Was one of the last Lift Engineering lifts built and was basically a one-off concept with mostly unique parts. A really interesting system with towers built into waterslides, a very large yet classic “yanbox” drive terminal, and much more!
there is still the Belmont Lift there and it is still there. Plus I don’t think it will be removed any time soon because it mostly only serves a small terrain park.
From what I read, the old Newport Double was sold to a Zipline tour in Namibia. The Mainline Double was sold to another small area around, but it’s yet to be completed.
Just skied Squaw for a week, here is my analysis on what needs change in their lift system:
Squaw Creek- should be upgraded to HSQ (with bubbles?)
Red dog- should be upgraded to HSQ or low capacity HSS
Squaw one- should be run from 9am-10am to get people out of the village during the morning rush
Emigrant- should be upgraded to HSQ
Granite Chief- should be upgraded to HSQ
Olympic Lady/Broken arrow/Belmont- should be run more often or just removed
Silverado- should be run more
Rest of the lifts are fine. Obviously California express should be built to link alpine meadows. This could provide as enough backup for KT that Olympic Lady is no longer needed and a KT capacity upgrade isn’t needed.
While I’m at it, might as well give my opinion on alpine:
Hot wheels- should be upgraded to HSQ that continues to Sherwood ridge, with a midstation where the lift currently ends. Allow the bottom section to run alone in high winds.
Scott- should eventually be upgraded to a FGQ
Alpine bowl- should be upgraded to a triple (or a longer HSQ replacing both it and the yellow chair)
Finally, Either:
Alpine bowl- should be extended to Ward Peak
or
A new lift should go up on the backside starting near the top of sherwood and terminating on Ward Peak.
If you add that many HSQ on that resort, it would get skied out way too fast. It gets skied out fast already as it is. The only chair there that needs to be upgraded is Red Dog. Ole Lady and B Arrow are for relieving stress in the lift lines when it is busy. Besides that, the terrain both of those chairs serve are easily accessible. Even though they run rarely, they do serve a key purpose on that mountain.
Having a gondola/chair that connects squaw to alpine is not practical, unethical, and would be damaging to Olympic Valley’s eco system.
I agree with your Squaw Creek, Red Dog, Squaw One, Emigrant, and Granite Chief assessments. The whole High Camp beginner complex should be reorganized and streamlined to provide a better experience. Olympic Lady is simply a backup and has no use except when the upper mountain is closed due to high winds or the crowds are insane on a holiday weekend, but perhaps it will go when California Express is eventually installed. Personally, I also wish they ran Broken Arrow more often as well. Silverado is often difficult to run because it needs a large base and its bottom terminal sits at a low elevation. I think Scott is fine for now, but I do agree Alpine Bowl should be upgraded and extended to Ward Peak (although I would leave Yellow in place and just make Alpine accessible from Sherwood and Treeline Cirque with intermediate runs). You got your wish with Hot Wheels.
Squaw Creek: Either High speed quad or six(have Squaw Valley open a poll so skiers/snowboarders and rider alike can vote on this). HSQ can be utilized by the Poma terminal of current Squaw One or HSS can use a Doppelmayr Spacejet UNI terminal like Summit Six Express. Either type should have bubbles, seat heating and footrest. Towers can implement BOSE weather loudspeakers for night skiing with LED color lights.
Red Dog: was already rumored on being a six pack by Leitner-Poma(should be with acrylic blue bubbles and footrests, seat heating). Would like this one to use the Leitner terminals that European Ski resorts use, and completely enclosed terminals and underbelly.
Squaw One: Should be upgraded to a high speed 8(maybe even call it SUPER SQUAW 8) with individual footrests, seat heating, and blue bubbles..produced by Doppelmayr, and would be even awesome for them to resurrect the UNI-L spacejet terminal like on Summit Six Express but with latest Doppelmayr tech like direct drive..and slightly stretch the spacejet terminal longer. 90 degree loading should be a maybe, perhaps in a poll for skiers and snowboarders to vote on. Both spacejet terminals would be enclosed with completely enclosed underbelly..
ON a stronger note: the towers should integrate BOSE speakers, LED color lights with wireless control for music..prolly by the DJs when night skiing resumes and EDM/Trance/progressive music.
Emigrant: high speed quad or six(should be put in a poll) made by Doppelmayr. Six pack should use the Spacejet terminal like Summit Six, or if high speed quad should use the Original UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals like Roundhouse Express or Storm Peak/Sundown Express. Either type should have footrests, blue bubbles, and seat heating
Granite Chief: ok either way
Olympic Lady: run more or either removed same with broken arrow.
Belmont/Bailey’s beach: run more or combined into a fixed grip triple or quad.
Silverado is fine.
Exhibition: seems not to run even when theres snow….guess the Squaw One quad was wooing skiers and snowboarders from Exhibition…Exhibition should be upgraded to High Speed Quad by Doppelmayr with UNI(original) terminals with Exposed bullwheels at both terminals a la Roundhouse Express(drive terminal at bottom)..should have footrests, blue bubbles and seat heating. Towers can use the BOSE speakers, color LEDs for night skiing when DJs wanna crank up EDM mixes.
Solitude: upgrade to High Speed quad by Doppelmayr using the original UNI terminal with exposed bullwheels at both terminals, Top station is drive terminal like Storm Peak/Sundown Express at Steamboat Springs. Chairs should use footrests integrated into bars, blue bubbles and seat heating.
————————–Alpine Meadows———————————
Treeline Cirque: if theres anything that can or should be changed it should either be upgraded to a six pack with footrests and blue bubbles.
Summit Express: implement direct drive tech under the hood, integrate footrests, heated seats, and acrylic blue bubbles onto the chair.
Scott: should be either a high speed quad or six by Doppelmayr. HSQ can use the UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals. Six pack can borrow the UNI L spacejet from Summit Express. Either type will use footrests and bubbles.
Yellow: prolly if high speed quad upgrade use Doppelmayr and UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals.
Subway and Meadow can combine into a fixed grip triple.
Roundhouse: most should be the integration of footrests into the chair and bubbles…and maybe seat heating
Alpine Bowl?: if upgraded to detachable quad, should use Doppelmayr with exposed bullwheels at both terminals..should use footrests integrated into bars, blue bubbles and seat heating.
Kangaroo: down the line should be upgraded to high speed quad by Doppelmayr, using of course latest technology, but using the original UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals like Roundhouse Express, except have the drive terminal at the top. Chairs should utilize footrests, blue bubbles and seat heating.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST, it would be awesome if these upgrades, BOTH at SQUAW and ALPINE, particularly the detachable upgrades, to integrate solar panels on the top roof of their terminals so they can rely on some solar power when theres sunlight, aside from just pure electricity.
Donald: I’m just saying..maybe not straight away, but in the future whenever. The Squaw One eight pack i brought up could serve a good alternative to the funitel.
I agree that footrests are a good idea for the lifts here. I do hope resorts can get over their footrest phobia and realize that they add to rider comfort.
while The Treeline cirque is brand new, the fact that Summit Six goes to the top means that the Treeline should go 6 pack to kinda match that, since it uses the same terminal design of Leitner Poma like Big Blue and Siberia Express. That being said, these chairs should get the footrests including Big Blue and Siberia.
Why resurrect the DS series? Doppelmayr discontinued it in the mid 90s in favor of the Uni Spacejet, and later the Uni-G. Why does the funitel need a “backup” lift that would most likely have a higher capacity than the funitel? Okemo figured out how much of a pain it was to add bubbles to an existing lift. Having skiers vote on lift upgrades sounds like a disaster. They’re probably paying a professional company a lot of money to do lift upgrade plans. Resurrecting the Uni/DS series for bubble chairs sounds like even more of a disaster. What did Vail, Steamboat, Alyeska, and Tremblant do after buying the original EJ bubble lifts? The ones that are still operating with their bubbles are not in good shape.
Also, how can the latest technology fit in a first or second generation UNI/DS terminal? Those would be nice for skier comfort, but a big company like Alterra won’t dump money in an upgrade unless they can get their money back on it.
Squaw Creek: Either a new HSQ or the Squaw One Express
Red Dog: already being made into an HSS
KT-22: Sometimes lines can get long so maybe
Squaw One: An HSS to increase uphill capacity
Emigrant: An HSQ, but not necessary. However, the bottom station should be lower or realigned for better access from the funitel.
Granite Chief: Fine (though I would like an HSQ)
Silverado: Fine
Solitude: HSQ preferred because Shirley’s lines can get long, but it’s fine
Belmont: Fine
Bailey’s Beach/Mountain Meadow: Fixed quad in Mtn. Meadow’s alignment, because Bailey’s Beach terrain is accessible from Mountain Meadow
Exhibition: Runs usually on peak days or when the upper mountain is closed, but not necessary otherwise, so it’s fine, but it should be run when KT’s lines are 10 mins +.
Olympic Lady: Should be run when KT lines are 10 mins +
Broken Arrow: not really used much, but it’s okay to use, maybe realigned so it’s more useful
Alpine Meadows:
Yellow & ABC: HSQ with a mid-station at the current top of Yellow, bottom at Yellow’s base, top at ABC’s top. Not sure how the terminal will work at the top with the hill… probably 90-degree unloading
Subway and Meadow: Fixed grip 3
Scott: HSQ. The top might have to be lower down because of the hill or the hill might be excavated. With a slight shift to the top, no funky unloading necessary
Lakeview: HSQ. Nothing else to say.
Kangaroo: I really don’t know what they would do to Kangaroo.
All of these upgrades I don’t expect to happen in the near future, cost-wise. Lift companies are decidable, but by how Squaw is purchasing Leitner-Poma lifts, probably most lifts will be Leitner-Poma anyway. To be honest, I like Doppelmayr lifts more, but Squaw probably has some sort of deal with Leitner-Poma. Specific details will be decided by Squaw, which means no bubbles, seat heaters, footrests (though I wish they liked footrests), night skiing, etc., unfortunately.
I wanted to say KT22 as HSS and even a large spacejet terminal with it, I didn’t initially until I skied KT22 for the first time this season. Exhibition can have a terminal with exposed bullwheels
Alex, if there was any idea at all in resurrecting the DS series (exposed bullwheel Uni terminal grip), I’m sure no one is in a hurry to do it now. Look what happened at Camelback, Mont Sainte Anne, and Thredbo. If there’s going to be a custom terminal skin, it would be in a building and not an old design. You can’t stay in business making old designs, it put Hall out of business and made Yan decline before the Quicksilver incident.
Maybe the look of the spacejet terminal and another with exposed bullwheel design, but maybe not the DS Grip, I’m talking about more internal tech equipment like the D Line with solar/wind panels on the roof of said spacejet terminal.
I’m not saying use the DS grip I’m talking about spacejet or UNI exposed bullwheel design of terminal but with updated technology like the D Line chairs and equipment..and Doppelmayr direct drive system.
Otherwise let’s just use Leitner Poma from now on because IMHO those spacejet terminals like on Roundhouse, AMEX, Summit Six and the six packs at Crystal mountain made the ski lifts more modern and space age.
I like the Squaw Creek HSQ idea but I doubt they would do it with Squaw One since it’s so old. And Squaw One itself doesn’t need a capacity upgrade. It rarely ran in the pre-covid days so I anticipate it’s demand will drop once people are comfortable riding the Funitel again.
KT-22 to a HSS does make sense at some point down the line, but I still see that being 10 years away. Especially considering the access that the California Express Gondola will allow to that zone. I think that buys them some time on a KT replacement.
While a HSQ for Emigrant makes sense in theory, the high winds in that area combined with the fact that there are already several other lifts providing access to Shirley Lake (Gold Coast, Big Blue, and Siberia) makes a replacement unlikely in the near future. The main function of Emigrant these days is simply providing access to Mainline Pocket and the Attic/Funnel area. It rarely has significant lines when it’s running so it really doesn’t need a capacity upgrade. The only reason to change anything about the lift is the fact that you need to walk across a run to access it from Gold Coast Lodge. Although that’s a very high traffic area so moving the bottom terminal could create a logjam there and possibly make it more difficult to access the lodge itself. Which is obviously counterproductive because $$$.
It is still in the master plan to replace Granite Chief with a HSQ. I have a feeling this may be the next major upgrade after Red Dog to a HSS. On a powder day, this is one of the busiest places on the mountain. I don’t know where they are in the process of permits and approvals but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they went with a HSS here. It serves some of the most popular terrain on the mountain and lines can be insane. It’s already a 2000pph triple and with most quads being about 2400pph these days, I think it makes more sense to go with a 2800-3000pph HSS. Shirley Lake next door is a 3200pph HSS for reference and even that has fairly long lines most of the time. Combine that with the fact that this part of the mountain gets the most snow and holds it the longest into the spring means a high capacity lift here would be a good investment going forward in a changing climate.
Mountain Meadow was already a recent upgrade on the old Links chair so if they were going to put a fixed grip quad in that alignment, they probably would have done that when they put Mountain Meadow in.
Exhibition and Olympic Lady are an interesting case. Exhibition doesn’t serve any of the terrain that people ride KT to access so it really isn’t a reliever lift so running it when KT has a long line doesn’t make much difference. That chair serves the race team primarily. And Olympic Lady only serves the upper east portion of KT. I think that is a limiting factor in combining Exhibition and Olympic Lady with a HSQ with a midstation. It still wouldn’t take much pressure off KT since it doesn’t access West Face. The new California Express will take more pressure off KT than an Exhibition/Olympic Lady HSQ.
Alpine Meadows:
I like the idea of a Yellow/Alpine Bowl Chair HSQ but having the midstation at the current top of Yellow is too high for people lapping the terrain east of ABC which in reality is most of the people lapping ABC. However, moving the midstation down for those people makes it impossible to access the terrain under Yellow so these should really just be 2 separate chairs. And with the current ride times and lift lines being relatively short on each of these, there’s not really any need for a high speed lift in either of these alignments in the near future.
Scott’s current capacity is only 1500pph which is fairly low for a triple chair. Lines don’t tend to be extremely long and the lift is only 2250 feet long. The only upgrade I could see them doing here is adding some more chairs to increase capacity. A HSQ in this alignment doesn’t make sense. It would be one of the shortest detachable lifts in the country and there just isn’t the demand for that.
Lakeview serves great intermediate terrain and for that reason I could see them putting a HSQ here. I still think it’s unlikely since this terrain faces southwest and doesn’t hold as much snow as other parts of the mountain, although to be fair that didn’t stop them with the Sherwood HSQ but that serves more terrain and a small base area so it’s not really the same. Lakeview is also a very short fixed grip at only 2250 feet long so ride time is not a concern either.
Kangaroo can stay where it is, although I think a lift going above that to access Estelle Bowl would greatly enhance the Alpine Meadows experience. A large part of their skiable acreage is only accessible via a long traverse from Summit Six. This chair would take a lot of pressure off Summit Six on busy days. A chair up this area would also allow access to the Alpine Meadows midstation of the California Express Gondola. As it stands, the proposed midstation doesn’t make much sense without nearby lift access so I think this may be part of their plan in the coming years. I imagine as soon as Red Dog is replaced with a HSS, the old triple chair is moved here in a similar alignment to allow access to these bowls as well as access to the gondola midstation.
And then to reiterate previous comments on the issue, it simply isn’t cold enough in the Tahoe area for bubble chairs and heated seats. This isn’t the rockies where you have a high of 5 degrees during winter. We see daytime temps in the 40s and tons of sun all winter long. Although I am a member of team footrest. People need to learn how to use them safely so that more lifts can have these.
Just because Mountain Meadow was upgraded to a triple doesn’t mean that it won’t be replaced soon. The High Camp double was upgraded to a triple a few years before it was upgraded.
True, but from this view, you can see that they are far enough apart to each warrant their own chair. In which case the 2 existing triple chairs makes sense. Especially since it’s a beginner area and the beginners on Mountain Meadow wouldn’t want to traverse over to Bailey’s Beach. Money no object, maybe they would replace it with a slow HSQ since those seem premium to people who buy a $170 lift ticket but that seems low on the priority list right now.
personally, I think they should have realigned east broadway, then again they planned on having big blue be the big 3000p/h people mover but at the moment it probably gets 2400p/h at best.
All you folks going on about the detaches with exposed bullwheels haven’t worked on one with a proper underskin (like the current UNI-Gs). SO much easier to crawl around and do mechanicky things. When I had the old Flyer I was mildly jealous of the guys who had newer terminals that way.
Personally, I would build an FGQ on a similar alignment to the old East Broadway to relive Big Blue and whereas big blue is the main beginner lift there as well as a massive transfer lift. With a lift following the old east broadway liftline but the top terminal altered to a different location, there would be two alternative lifts. One could use the new east broadway if they wanted to go right from the funitel or a beginner can lap it as an alternative to mountain meadows. Another alternative would be to just run big blue faster but I don’t think they ever plan on doing that.
It may have something to do with kids sitting too far forward in an attempt to put skis on the footrests and falling off of chairlifts.Just a theory but it may be the reason if I remember correctly.
Headwall used to have them, and the Siberia six-pack had them when first constructed, only to have the footrests cut short to just the handles by opening day.
Interesting, didnt know they had 2 pulse lifts. I guess Leitner-Poma wasnt the first to turn a lift using canted tower sheaves on one massive tower. I was looking for the old pulse lift where the double chairs would face sideways.
When do you think this gondola will be complete then? I remember that Squaw Valley said that it would be completed by 2019 2020 ski season but that probably won’t happen.
My 2 cents but unless the plaintiffs can get a judge to give them an injunction to block the project (which I find hard to believe they will be able to) I bet it gets installed next summer. They are already working on the retaining walls on the Alpine side preparing for it.
I’m pretty sure that black structure on the left is the top of lost lake, iirc. my ski instructor told me about it a long time ago so my memory of it may be a bit foggy
you know I have been wondering something about Squaws Yan lifts. If you look at the lifting frames on the majority of their towers they are neither the classic Yan Y frames or the frame less towers (aside from the few Y frames on broken arrow and emigrant). I noticed that Alpine Meadows does not have lifting frames on any of its Yans exept for scott and that is a Garaventa/Yan. I am wondering if these unusual lifting frames are modifications made by Squaws lift ops at some point or were made by some other lift manufacture.
I wonder why emigrant for example has some yan lifting frames but the rest are the local design, do you think that some of emigrants towers were reused, same for broken arrow?
Emigrant has a little bit of everything. The original lift might have been a Hunsinger or Miner Denver? Think there a couple of original towers with Yan tops on them. Then Yan modification and Triple Chair. Think the cross arm with the Yan lifting has Doppelmayr 4T – 4D on it.
Broken Arrow lift was relocated. Used to be a top Drive lift. Can’t remember which lift it was off hand.
They need to bring C2 back. I suggest they replace Red Dog with a HSQ and use the old Red Dog lift for the new Cornice II lift. C2 was always a great storm day chair, because it could run in storms while Headwall would have to be on wind hold. Plus having a C2 chair would further increase the Squallywood feel of Squaw by having a chair closer to the Squallywood lines. Having another chair running on a storm powder day would really help the stress in the KT lift line. They have enough towers and supplies from the Red Dog chair to make that move smooth and efficient.
I think this one’s too optimistic unfortunately. Red Dog is a 1989 alpha so it probably will be re-located to a more useful/essential place (perhaps another alterra resort entirely). Even if they did find a cheap lift to install on C2, it would only be used on crowded storm days when headwall can’t operate but C2 theoretically could. That’s a very unique scenario that isn’t very common. Even under that scenario, it’d be fairly likely that people would opt to lap Squaw Creek or Red Dog instead of going through the hassle of accessing C2. Overall, it’s probably not worth the installation or maintenance costs for Squaw to re-install Cornice 2. Now that the old lift is gone, I’d say it’s unlikely we’ll see a lift there again.
A far better possible lift for to solve KT lines would be a surface lift from the bottom of gold coast chair to the top of headwall. It would run a line similar to where newport ran, but it would be far more useful as it would access all of headwall’s trails. This is a far better option than bringing back C2 (cheaper, better in the wind, accesses more trails) but would have the drawback of splitting chicken/north bowl.
Speaking of surface lifts, when broken arrow needs to be replaced it should be replaced with a surface lift starting slightly lower than the current double chair. The current profile has too many downhill sections to be replaced with a surface lift, but starting even just a few hundred feet lower would make it work.
I’d also like to see Squaw possibly expand at some point with new terrain. There’s a lot of good terrain just outside the area boundary, and there’s a bunch of places where a fixed grip or even surface lift would provide excellent skiing. Considering the amount of environmentalist push-back against Squaw in the past though, this one is probably a pipe dream.
Completely unrelated side note, but Silverado and Oly lady should be ran more often. Silverado exclusively accesses some of the best expert terrain on the planet and Oly lady was literally designed to relieve KT.
I have to disagree with you on the surface lift from Gold Coast to the top of Headwall. While it may be cheaper and better in wind, it defiantly would not offer more trails. Having that would also be even more monotonous then installing a new C2. It would also be less aesthetically pleasing to do that as well.
Olympic Lady and C2 had the same design-to relieve KT and Headwall. It just makes sense if Red Dog was a highspeed quad, and the old Red dog chair became C2. That would create so much more flow on powder days, holidays, and storm days. The surface lift wouldn’t be used as a storm lift, because it would be considered an upper mountain lift, which is mostly closed on storm days.
As for Silverado, not only does it require a lot of snow for it to be open, but it’s altitude is pretty low. With those factors combined, Silverado cannot run frequently.
With it being 2020, wouldn’t most Alterra resorts have updated lifts? If so, then the old Red Dog chair wouldn’t really be needed at other resorts.
“The surface lift wouldn’t be used as a storm lift, because it would be considered an upper mountain lift, which is mostly closed on storm days.”
Surface lifts are far more wind resistant than chairlifts. The idea would be that if the funitel is running, that lift can run too. It doesn’t matter if it’s upper mountain, it matters if it is wind resistant enough.
“With it being 2020, wouldn’t most Alterra resorts have updated lifts? If so, then the old Red Dog chair wouldn’t really be needed at other resorts.”
June Mountain CA is owned by Alterra and the only out of base lift there is a 1960 riblet/yan frankenlift.
The main thing I can think is that both Squaw and Alpine could really use Red Dog in multiple places. It could be used to replace Alpine Bowl on a new alignment to the summit, the return is super compact and would fit there well. It could also be used to replace Subway and Meadows with one lift with a mid-station load unload. It would also work as a new lift near kangaroo which goes up above it. While the last is the least likely there are a ton of placements which it could go on. Not only that but the length of the lift and number of chairs means it could be split up to do at least two of these projects to save money, say one gets a new drive and return. There are probably a ton more places it could go between the resorts but these are just the most sensible.
I think the best relocation for the old Red Dog chair at Squalpine is a lift up Beaver Bowl above Kangaroo. That would eliminate a ton of traversing from summit to access that terrain and it just so happens that it would be about the same length as the current lift to reach the top of Beaver Bowl from the base of Kangaroo.
Squaw did an incredible job of fixing the high-camp/gold coast area. It went from being a jumbled mess of lifts (half of which were useless) to just making sense. My only criticism is that Siberia, Emigrant and Big Blue make Gold Coast a bit redundant (the only thing Gold Coast does that the other two don’t is serve two beginner runs). Outside of that, Siberia, Emigrant and Big blue are just better. Siberia and emigrant service more terrain and Big Blue gets you to high camp or the backside quicker.
I can see why you would think that. However, Squaw’s main park is the same location where Goldcoast is. You take Gold Coast out, then that park is a pain to get to. I do agree that Squaw did a fantastic job cleaning up the beginner area.
The latest California Express rumor I heard: the project is going to officially be announced as ready to build after this season when Squaw Valley announces its name change. As a side note, the new name will encompass the whole resort, as they want it to start being viewed as one ski area similar to Park City. I have heard they may call either the current Squaw side or the entire resort “Olympic Valley”, while Alpine Meadows will remain the name of only its respective side and not the entire resort. The gondola itself can be built in one summer, but they may say it will take two and do the majority of the work in 2022 depending on Alterra’s new adjusted capital expenditures plan (whether they simply push back most projects by a year or simply put all the delayed 2020 work in 2021 and keep to the original timeline). The other reason for it to be listed as a two-year project is because Red Dog will be replaced at the same time. Additionally, work on the Squaw village expansion is expected to begin right around the time the gondola is completed, as that will allow them to use Alpine Meadows parking for Squaw skiers and not leave them temporarily short on parking spaces.
Olympic Valley is the obvious choice as the new name. It will be interesting to see if they can work a deal with the US Olympic Committee and use the word ‘Olympic’ for commercial gain. My understanding is the USOC owns trademark rights to the word ‘Olympic.’ The top of KT has recently been surveyed for the gondola mid station, but that in and of itself does not mean that it will be built.
Even if the word “Olympic” is trademarked, that does not mean any phrase containing the word Olympic is out of the question. There are numerous active trademarks for phrases containing “Olympic” that are not owned by any association with ties to the games. Olympic Valley itself looks like it may have been briefly trademarked in the 90s by a farm in Washington state.
The thing to remember here is the use of the word for commercial gain. Is the USOC going to go after a farm in Washington State, or a bike shop in Tahoe City? Probably not. Are they going to take exception to Alterra using the word ‘Olympic’ in naming a Tahoe ski resort, and profiting off use of the word? More likely than not. I personally think Olympic Valley would be the logical choice moving forward, but we’ll have to see how it plays out.
The one thing about the gondola that worries me is that it might lead to KT (espescially west KT) getting skied off much faster. We’ll have to see though.
Based on the maps and renderings they have released, it looks like it will be hard to ski from the KT station over to the east side of KT. It seems as though the terminal will be somewhere around the top of Nose or Chute 75, and the precise location in that area will be key in determining the ability to head over to the east side.
Personally, I think it will be okay. KT’s capacity is only 2100 and the gondola will be roughly 1400. Even if all gondola riders got off at KT (which will not happen), it would still be less than a six-pack.
Adding to this with the latest information I heard regarding the name change: It will likely be announced at some point during the season, and the new favorite is some sort of geographic reference (likely something referring to Lake Tahoe, California, or the Sierra Nevada). The Squaw Valley village/base will likely be rebranded as the Olympic Valley village/base while the Alpine Meadows base will keep its existing name. Having the entire resort being named Olympic Valley in addition to the village on one side was thought to be a bit confusing and not unifying.
The question over whether Califorina Express/Red Dog 2.0 will happen over this upcoming summer or the next two summers (with the majority of the work being in 2022) is still up in the air, as Alterra’s new capital expenditures plan will be determined by how profitable this winter is.
If it were me i would call the entire resort “Alpine Meadows Resort”. Maybe call the current Alpine Meadows “Base Lodge Base” and the current Squaw Valley “Village Base”. While it is not at the level of Squaw, Alpine does have brand equity. Corporations always underestimate the amount of time/$$ it takes to establish a new brand. They should triple down on Alpine Meadows and be done with it.
Does anyone know what that old top bullwheel under headwalls first mini breakover is? never noticed it until today but I also dont ski squaw very often
Here are my Chair/tower standings for Squaw Valley:
Siberia Express: 56/13 (I think the HSQ had 54, but not sure)
Big Blue Express: 64/15
Shirley Lake Express: 55/12
Gold Coast Express: 56/1
Emigrant: 102/12
Red Dog: 151/16
Belmont: 38/4
Mountain Meadow: 54/8
KT-22: 93/?
Bailey’s Beach: 36/6
Head wall Express: 76/22
Granite Chief: 112/15
Solitude: 101/12
Squaw One: 141/24
Hope this helps!
Apparently in the 1970s Headwall and Siberia had midway unloading stations. I was listening to a lifty from that time period talking with the daughter of the man who flattened Squaw Peak. I can’t find any old maps that show it, or any photos though.
I do not recall a mid-unload on Headwall, but Siberia definitely did have one. When looking at the current lift, it was at approximately where Tower 9 stands today. I remember Siberia because it was a classic Riblet double; very old school with the ramp one had to side-step to board the lift. Someone would fall almost always lose balance; causing the other skiers waiting below them in line to fall like dominoes.
Came across a few pictures of the old Squaw One double chair. It ran about 600 feet higher up from the top of the current Squaw One Express. The jigback tram was built next to the top of this chair and can be seen in the third photo.
Fist photo is opening day 1949
Second was not dated but likely around the same time as there is still no development at the base
Third has to be after 1951 as that’s when the jigback tram was constructed
Peter, I just noticed that you combined the two pages (squaw and alpine) but what about all the comments on the removed alpine page? Are they all gone? Also, the url still reads “squaw-valley-ca”
If you go to https://www.palisadestahoe.com/mountain-information/webcams#tab=olympic-valley
And use the Olympic Valley Base 6800′ Cam and move the camera to KT-22, you can see the gondola’s towers going up to the mid station. Also, if you use the KT/Exhibition base button and then turn the camera to red dog you can for a short time see the base of the gondola.
Also, if you use the Palisades Tahoe Scope 8200′ Cam and switch to Kt-22 top you can see the mid station foundation and towers
This might be a little corny, but I think “Squall Valley” would have been a good replacement name. Sounds similar to the previous name and has something to do with snow (snow squall).
palisades tahoe ops blog said that we should say goodbye to the Red Dog Triple, as it is being replaced with a HSS, interesting that they chose HSS and not HSQ for a lift that rarely has a line. will be cool to see how they implement a larger chair in that space
The chair spacing makes sense, but there isn’t much wind on the red dog line, save for the part where it is suspended high in the air. Will they use the existing towers or put in new ones? I’ve never seen a detachable chair that high above the ground
I would imagine they’ll eliminate the flying return and put traditional towers in that span. Although just because we’ve never seen a detach with a flying return doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen.
Red Dog rarely has lines when everything is open. However, when the Upper Mountain is closed due to wind, Red Dog gets backed up (along with the other couple of lifts that are able to remain open).
correction. the black part of the funitel building (the long part) is new, bc they couldn’t fit the funi in the gondola building, which was the normal-sized part of it. that’s why you have to walk so far to get from where you get off the terminal to the exit.
Siberia was a Riblet. The bottom Drive terminal burned down in the fall of 1978 and we replaced it with a Yan Drive terminal that was sitting in the Homewood parking lot. It was supposed to be part of a 2 lift expansion at Homewood that never happened.
There were two Links chairs? I believe there was only one that followed the original line that unloaded near the top of East Broadway and Shirley. Kirk and others on this site may be able to confirm. Links was then realigned, converted to a triple, renamed Meadow, and changed from counterweight to hydraulic tensioning sometime in the early- to mid-2010s.
Stop by at the base of Olympic Valley yesterday out of curiosity for Red Dog Express’s progress, since Alterra’s focus has been on California Express.
Lift line is cut and looks like all the necessary erosion work was done, couldn’t spot any towers installed from the base area. The existing buildings cited to be removed in the 2019 plan are still standing as far as I could tell.
The new trail map is out for Palisades Tahoe… and it looks horrible. I will be honest, this may just be more of a problem with VistaMap overall, as I am not a fan of their maps, but the sense of scale, depth, and location is all off. I understand it is a massive, sprawling complex, but James Niehues did an excellent job navigating similar challenges at Big Sky and Park City and created gorgeous maps.
the thing about PCMR map is that its one face/angle that the map is drawn from. the issue with palisades is that its multiple mountains behind each other, and even they managed that well with the silverado inset to get all of broken arrow in view, but with two mountains so large that aren’t linearly aligned with each other, its a lot harder. I agree that the new trail map is ugly, no doubt, but those other ones you mentioned didn’t have the same issue. Big sky is closer to that issue, but still uses an inset for its south face terrain. The only way palisades could make it good would be to have an alpine inset that is just as big, and just not have the gondola connected on the map
I’m curious if the the Gondola’s installation causes Alterra to consider some out of base upgrades for Alpine Meadows, with more demand being pushed over there.
The only one I can really see is Roundhouse becoming a six. Maybe they’ll pivot back to the rollers lift in some of their earlier proposals, and that might justify some love for kangaroo
Pure SWAG, but given the new alignment of the Base to Base, not sure if Rollers is ever going to happen.
I believe the next lift project will be to replace Subway and Meadows with one lift from bottom of Subway to top of Meadows. This should be a HSQ, but perhaps they will make it fixed grip. The reason for HSQ would be that this new lift while super short would serve both as an access lift from the lower parking lot (needs high capacity) as well as a beginner lift (slow on/off).
Agree on Roundhouse upgrade to HSS at some point due to its age.
Summit has been having increased east wind holds in the last few years which would lead me to believe that at some point they will need to find a way to address/mitigate. Not sure if this is a new lift (HSE for chair weight/capacity?) potentially realigned somehow to mitigate wind, or some other mitigating solution. But it is something that Alpine will need to fix in the medium term.
Lift Blog 
Where did the pulse run?
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Between High Camp and Gold Coast.
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Skilift.org has some photos of it
http://www.skilifts.org/old/images/resort_images/ca-squawvalley/pulse/pulse.htm
It had a turn similar to the one on supreme at Alta
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A yan gondola I didn’t know they had one here! I thought only at keystone and the Qmc Tran at June. The one yan double here also from 1968! Would of been cool to see since it was one of the first!
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Yan built a few gondolas, but only one remains which is located at the water park in Denver, Colorado which was relocated from Circus Circus, Las Vegas. The other gondola which was never a real gondola was built at the Yan facility in Carson when Yan was developing its detachable technology.
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Peter has some pictures of that last remaining “Yandola” on this site (link below). Although called a gondola, this lift is essentially a jig-back tram with two groups of gondola cabins instead of two tram cabins, much like the new Royal Gorge Gondola in Colorado. Was one of the last Lift Engineering lifts built and was basically a one-off concept with mostly unique parts. A really interesting system with towers built into waterslides, a very large yet classic “yanbox” drive terminal, and much more!
https://liftblog.com/funhouse-express-water-world-co/
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there is still the Belmont Lift there and it is still there. Plus I don’t think it will be removed any time soon because it mostly only serves a small terrain park.
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Belmont, Bailey’s Beach, Mtn Meadow, Olympic Lady, Emigrant, Granite Chief, Broken Arrow, and Silverado are all Yans.
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Palisades Tahoe co-founder Alexander Cushing’s daughter, Lily Cushing, married Yan, aka Janek Kunczynski, founder of Lift Engineering aka YAN Lifts..
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There’s a good brief biography, circa 1997, of Yan at http://www.coloradoskihistory.com/chairlift/yan1.html. The biography doesn’t sugarcoat Lift Engineering’s various successes, accidents, and re-birth
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From what I read, the old Newport Double was sold to a Zipline tour in Namibia. The Mainline Double was sold to another small area around, but it’s yet to be completed.
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did the pulse lift sell
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I was wondering the same thing. It must’ve, that pulse was only 13 when it was removed!
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Where is the pulse jigback double chairlift with the chairs rotated 90 degrees?
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This tram formed of several connected sideways facing doubles was enginered
by Bob Heron for the 1960 Winter Olympics.
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Note the wooden towers. The jig-back tram ran close to the snow due to its rather windy location on a windy mountain.
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Just skied Squaw for a week, here is my analysis on what needs change in their lift system:
Squaw Creek- should be upgraded to HSQ (with bubbles?)
Red dog- should be upgraded to HSQ or low capacity HSS
Squaw one- should be run from 9am-10am to get people out of the village during the morning rush
Emigrant- should be upgraded to HSQ
Granite Chief- should be upgraded to HSQ
Olympic Lady/Broken arrow/Belmont- should be run more often or just removed
Silverado- should be run more
Rest of the lifts are fine. Obviously California express should be built to link alpine meadows. This could provide as enough backup for KT that Olympic Lady is no longer needed and a KT capacity upgrade isn’t needed.
While I’m at it, might as well give my opinion on alpine:
Hot wheels- should be upgraded to HSQ that continues to Sherwood ridge, with a midstation where the lift currently ends. Allow the bottom section to run alone in high winds.
Scott- should eventually be upgraded to a FGQ
Alpine bowl- should be upgraded to a triple (or a longer HSQ replacing both it and the yellow chair)
Finally, Either:
Alpine bowl- should be extended to Ward Peak
or
A new lift should go up on the backside starting near the top of sherwood and terminating on Ward Peak.
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If you add that many HSQ on that resort, it would get skied out way too fast. It gets skied out fast already as it is. The only chair there that needs to be upgraded is Red Dog. Ole Lady and B Arrow are for relieving stress in the lift lines when it is busy. Besides that, the terrain both of those chairs serve are easily accessible. Even though they run rarely, they do serve a key purpose on that mountain.
Having a gondola/chair that connects squaw to alpine is not practical, unethical, and would be damaging to Olympic Valley’s eco system.
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I agree with your Squaw Creek, Red Dog, Squaw One, Emigrant, and Granite Chief assessments. The whole High Camp beginner complex should be reorganized and streamlined to provide a better experience. Olympic Lady is simply a backup and has no use except when the upper mountain is closed due to high winds or the crowds are insane on a holiday weekend, but perhaps it will go when California Express is eventually installed. Personally, I also wish they ran Broken Arrow more often as well. Silverado is often difficult to run because it needs a large base and its bottom terminal sits at a low elevation. I think Scott is fine for now, but I do agree Alpine Bowl should be upgraded and extended to Ward Peak (although I would leave Yellow in place and just make Alpine accessible from Sherwood and Treeline Cirque with intermediate runs). You got your wish with Hot Wheels.
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———————–Squaw Valley———————–
Squaw Creek: Either High speed quad or six(have Squaw Valley open a poll so skiers/snowboarders and rider alike can vote on this). HSQ can be utilized by the Poma terminal of current Squaw One or HSS can use a Doppelmayr Spacejet UNI terminal like Summit Six Express. Either type should have bubbles, seat heating and footrest. Towers can implement BOSE weather loudspeakers for night skiing with LED color lights.
Red Dog: was already rumored on being a six pack by Leitner-Poma(should be with acrylic blue bubbles and footrests, seat heating). Would like this one to use the Leitner terminals that European Ski resorts use, and completely enclosed terminals and underbelly.
Squaw One: Should be upgraded to a high speed 8(maybe even call it SUPER SQUAW 8) with individual footrests, seat heating, and blue bubbles..produced by Doppelmayr, and would be even awesome for them to resurrect the UNI-L spacejet terminal like on Summit Six Express but with latest Doppelmayr tech like direct drive..and slightly stretch the spacejet terminal longer. 90 degree loading should be a maybe, perhaps in a poll for skiers and snowboarders to vote on. Both spacejet terminals would be enclosed with completely enclosed underbelly..
ON a stronger note: the towers should integrate BOSE speakers, LED color lights with wireless control for music..prolly by the DJs when night skiing resumes and EDM/Trance/progressive music.
Emigrant: high speed quad or six(should be put in a poll) made by Doppelmayr. Six pack should use the Spacejet terminal like Summit Six, or if high speed quad should use the Original UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals like Roundhouse Express or Storm Peak/Sundown Express. Either type should have footrests, blue bubbles, and seat heating
Granite Chief: ok either way
Olympic Lady: run more or either removed same with broken arrow.
Belmont/Bailey’s beach: run more or combined into a fixed grip triple or quad.
Silverado is fine.
Exhibition: seems not to run even when theres snow….guess the Squaw One quad was wooing skiers and snowboarders from Exhibition…Exhibition should be upgraded to High Speed Quad by Doppelmayr with UNI(original) terminals with Exposed bullwheels at both terminals a la Roundhouse Express(drive terminal at bottom)..should have footrests, blue bubbles and seat heating. Towers can use the BOSE speakers, color LEDs for night skiing when DJs wanna crank up EDM mixes.
Solitude: upgrade to High Speed quad by Doppelmayr using the original UNI terminal with exposed bullwheels at both terminals, Top station is drive terminal like Storm Peak/Sundown Express at Steamboat Springs. Chairs should use footrests integrated into bars, blue bubbles and seat heating.
————————–Alpine Meadows———————————
Treeline Cirque: if theres anything that can or should be changed it should either be upgraded to a six pack with footrests and blue bubbles.
Summit Express: implement direct drive tech under the hood, integrate footrests, heated seats, and acrylic blue bubbles onto the chair.
Scott: should be either a high speed quad or six by Doppelmayr. HSQ can use the UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals. Six pack can borrow the UNI L spacejet from Summit Express. Either type will use footrests and bubbles.
Yellow: prolly if high speed quad upgrade use Doppelmayr and UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals.
Subway and Meadow can combine into a fixed grip triple.
Roundhouse: most should be the integration of footrests into the chair and bubbles…and maybe seat heating
Alpine Bowl?: if upgraded to detachable quad, should use Doppelmayr with exposed bullwheels at both terminals..should use footrests integrated into bars, blue bubbles and seat heating.
Kangaroo: down the line should be upgraded to high speed quad by Doppelmayr, using of course latest technology, but using the original UNI with exposed bullwheel at both terminals like Roundhouse Express, except have the drive terminal at the top. Chairs should utilize footrests, blue bubbles and seat heating.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST, it would be awesome if these upgrades, BOTH at SQUAW and ALPINE, particularly the detachable upgrades, to integrate solar panels on the top roof of their terminals so they can rely on some solar power when theres sunlight, aside from just pure electricity.
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Bubble lifts aren’t gonna happen. Nor will Squaw One become an eight pack. And Treeline Cirque just opened last year.
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Agreed. Those plans look a bit too ambitious for Alterra. There’s no way investors would sign off on that.
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Donald: I’m just saying..maybe not straight away, but in the future whenever. The Squaw One eight pack i brought up could serve a good alternative to the funitel.
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I agree that footrests are a good idea for the lifts here. I do hope resorts can get over their footrest phobia and realize that they add to rider comfort.
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Those upgrades sound too ambitious and Treeline Cirque is brand new.
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while The Treeline cirque is brand new, the fact that Summit Six goes to the top means that the Treeline should go 6 pack to kinda match that, since it uses the same terminal design of Leitner Poma like Big Blue and Siberia Express. That being said, these chairs should get the footrests including Big Blue and Siberia.
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Why resurrect the DS series? Doppelmayr discontinued it in the mid 90s in favor of the Uni Spacejet, and later the Uni-G. Why does the funitel need a “backup” lift that would most likely have a higher capacity than the funitel? Okemo figured out how much of a pain it was to add bubbles to an existing lift. Having skiers vote on lift upgrades sounds like a disaster. They’re probably paying a professional company a lot of money to do lift upgrade plans. Resurrecting the Uni/DS series for bubble chairs sounds like even more of a disaster. What did Vail, Steamboat, Alyeska, and Tremblant do after buying the original EJ bubble lifts? The ones that are still operating with their bubbles are not in good shape.
Also, how can the latest technology fit in a first or second generation UNI/DS terminal? Those would be nice for skier comfort, but a big company like Alterra won’t dump money in an upgrade unless they can get their money back on it.
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I do like the Spacejet. Modern and space age.
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Like you have said, only Boyne would do that, and they sorta did that with Shedhorn 4.
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Squaw Valley:
Squaw Creek: Either a new HSQ or the Squaw One Express
Red Dog: already being made into an HSS
KT-22: Sometimes lines can get long so maybe
Squaw One: An HSS to increase uphill capacity
Emigrant: An HSQ, but not necessary. However, the bottom station should be lower or realigned for better access from the funitel.
Granite Chief: Fine (though I would like an HSQ)
Silverado: Fine
Solitude: HSQ preferred because Shirley’s lines can get long, but it’s fine
Belmont: Fine
Bailey’s Beach/Mountain Meadow: Fixed quad in Mtn. Meadow’s alignment, because Bailey’s Beach terrain is accessible from Mountain Meadow
Exhibition: Runs usually on peak days or when the upper mountain is closed, but not necessary otherwise, so it’s fine, but it should be run when KT’s lines are 10 mins +.
Olympic Lady: Should be run when KT lines are 10 mins +
Broken Arrow: not really used much, but it’s okay to use, maybe realigned so it’s more useful
Alpine Meadows:
Yellow & ABC: HSQ with a mid-station at the current top of Yellow, bottom at Yellow’s base, top at ABC’s top. Not sure how the terminal will work at the top with the hill… probably 90-degree unloading
Subway and Meadow: Fixed grip 3
Scott: HSQ. The top might have to be lower down because of the hill or the hill might be excavated. With a slight shift to the top, no funky unloading necessary
Lakeview: HSQ. Nothing else to say.
Kangaroo: I really don’t know what they would do to Kangaroo.
All of these upgrades I don’t expect to happen in the near future, cost-wise. Lift companies are decidable, but by how Squaw is purchasing Leitner-Poma lifts, probably most lifts will be Leitner-Poma anyway. To be honest, I like Doppelmayr lifts more, but Squaw probably has some sort of deal with Leitner-Poma. Specific details will be decided by Squaw, which means no bubbles, seat heaters, footrests (though I wish they liked footrests), night skiing, etc., unfortunately.
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*KT-22: Sometimes lines can get long so maybe a 6-pack*
Also, Exhibition and Olympic Lady could be an HSQ with a mid at the top of Exhibition.
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I wanted to say KT22 as HSS and even a large spacejet terminal with it, I didn’t initially until I skied KT22 for the first time this season. Exhibition can have a terminal with exposed bullwheels
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Alex, if there was any idea at all in resurrecting the DS series (exposed bullwheel Uni terminal grip), I’m sure no one is in a hurry to do it now. Look what happened at Camelback, Mont Sainte Anne, and Thredbo. If there’s going to be a custom terminal skin, it would be in a building and not an old design. You can’t stay in business making old designs, it put Hall out of business and made Yan decline before the Quicksilver incident.
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Maybe the look of the spacejet terminal and another with exposed bullwheel design, but maybe not the DS Grip, I’m talking about more internal tech equipment like the D Line with solar/wind panels on the roof of said spacejet terminal.
I’m not saying use the DS grip I’m talking about spacejet or UNI exposed bullwheel design of terminal but with updated technology like the D Line chairs and equipment..and Doppelmayr direct drive system.
Otherwise let’s just use Leitner Poma from now on because IMHO those spacejet terminals like on Roundhouse, AMEX, Summit Six and the six packs at Crystal mountain made the ski lifts more modern and space age.
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There’s nothing wrong with the UNI G or LPA.
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Squaw Valley:
I like the Squaw Creek HSQ idea but I doubt they would do it with Squaw One since it’s so old. And Squaw One itself doesn’t need a capacity upgrade. It rarely ran in the pre-covid days so I anticipate it’s demand will drop once people are comfortable riding the Funitel again.
KT-22 to a HSS does make sense at some point down the line, but I still see that being 10 years away. Especially considering the access that the California Express Gondola will allow to that zone. I think that buys them some time on a KT replacement.
While a HSQ for Emigrant makes sense in theory, the high winds in that area combined with the fact that there are already several other lifts providing access to Shirley Lake (Gold Coast, Big Blue, and Siberia) makes a replacement unlikely in the near future. The main function of Emigrant these days is simply providing access to Mainline Pocket and the Attic/Funnel area. It rarely has significant lines when it’s running so it really doesn’t need a capacity upgrade. The only reason to change anything about the lift is the fact that you need to walk across a run to access it from Gold Coast Lodge. Although that’s a very high traffic area so moving the bottom terminal could create a logjam there and possibly make it more difficult to access the lodge itself. Which is obviously counterproductive because $$$.
It is still in the master plan to replace Granite Chief with a HSQ. I have a feeling this may be the next major upgrade after Red Dog to a HSS. On a powder day, this is one of the busiest places on the mountain. I don’t know where they are in the process of permits and approvals but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they went with a HSS here. It serves some of the most popular terrain on the mountain and lines can be insane. It’s already a 2000pph triple and with most quads being about 2400pph these days, I think it makes more sense to go with a 2800-3000pph HSS. Shirley Lake next door is a 3200pph HSS for reference and even that has fairly long lines most of the time. Combine that with the fact that this part of the mountain gets the most snow and holds it the longest into the spring means a high capacity lift here would be a good investment going forward in a changing climate.
Mountain Meadow was already a recent upgrade on the old Links chair so if they were going to put a fixed grip quad in that alignment, they probably would have done that when they put Mountain Meadow in.
Exhibition and Olympic Lady are an interesting case. Exhibition doesn’t serve any of the terrain that people ride KT to access so it really isn’t a reliever lift so running it when KT has a long line doesn’t make much difference. That chair serves the race team primarily. And Olympic Lady only serves the upper east portion of KT. I think that is a limiting factor in combining Exhibition and Olympic Lady with a HSQ with a midstation. It still wouldn’t take much pressure off KT since it doesn’t access West Face. The new California Express will take more pressure off KT than an Exhibition/Olympic Lady HSQ.
Alpine Meadows:
I like the idea of a Yellow/Alpine Bowl Chair HSQ but having the midstation at the current top of Yellow is too high for people lapping the terrain east of ABC which in reality is most of the people lapping ABC. However, moving the midstation down for those people makes it impossible to access the terrain under Yellow so these should really just be 2 separate chairs. And with the current ride times and lift lines being relatively short on each of these, there’s not really any need for a high speed lift in either of these alignments in the near future.
Scott’s current capacity is only 1500pph which is fairly low for a triple chair. Lines don’t tend to be extremely long and the lift is only 2250 feet long. The only upgrade I could see them doing here is adding some more chairs to increase capacity. A HSQ in this alignment doesn’t make sense. It would be one of the shortest detachable lifts in the country and there just isn’t the demand for that.
Lakeview serves great intermediate terrain and for that reason I could see them putting a HSQ here. I still think it’s unlikely since this terrain faces southwest and doesn’t hold as much snow as other parts of the mountain, although to be fair that didn’t stop them with the Sherwood HSQ but that serves more terrain and a small base area so it’s not really the same. Lakeview is also a very short fixed grip at only 2250 feet long so ride time is not a concern either.
Kangaroo can stay where it is, although I think a lift going above that to access Estelle Bowl would greatly enhance the Alpine Meadows experience. A large part of their skiable acreage is only accessible via a long traverse from Summit Six. This chair would take a lot of pressure off Summit Six on busy days. A chair up this area would also allow access to the Alpine Meadows midstation of the California Express Gondola. As it stands, the proposed midstation doesn’t make much sense without nearby lift access so I think this may be part of their plan in the coming years. I imagine as soon as Red Dog is replaced with a HSS, the old triple chair is moved here in a similar alignment to allow access to these bowls as well as access to the gondola midstation.
And then to reiterate previous comments on the issue, it simply isn’t cold enough in the Tahoe area for bubble chairs and heated seats. This isn’t the rockies where you have a high of 5 degrees during winter. We see daytime temps in the 40s and tons of sun all winter long. Although I am a member of team footrest. People need to learn how to use them safely so that more lifts can have these.
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Just because Mountain Meadow was upgraded to a triple doesn’t mean that it won’t be replaced soon. The High Camp double was upgraded to a triple a few years before it was upgraded.
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Yeah but I have never ever seen lines on that lift.
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True, but from this view, you can see that they are far enough apart to each warrant their own chair. In which case the 2 existing triple chairs makes sense. Especially since it’s a beginner area and the beginners on Mountain Meadow wouldn’t want to traverse over to Bailey’s Beach. Money no object, maybe they would replace it with a slow HSQ since those seem premium to people who buy a $170 lift ticket but that seems low on the priority list right now.
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personally, I think they should have realigned east broadway, then again they planned on having big blue be the big 3000p/h people mover but at the moment it probably gets 2400p/h at best.
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All you folks going on about the detaches with exposed bullwheels haven’t worked on one with a proper underskin (like the current UNI-Gs). SO much easier to crawl around and do mechanicky things. When I had the old Flyer I was mildly jealous of the guys who had newer terminals that way.
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Personally, I would build an FGQ on a similar alignment to the old East Broadway to relive Big Blue and whereas big blue is the main beginner lift there as well as a massive transfer lift. With a lift following the old east broadway liftline but the top terminal altered to a different location, there would be two alternative lifts. One could use the new east broadway if they wanted to go right from the funitel or a beginner can lap it as an alternative to mountain meadows. Another alternative would be to just run big blue faster but I don’t think they ever plan on doing that.
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Surely a FGQ or even HSQ from Gold Coast Lodge to the top of Shirley Lake would make sense. But don’t call me Shirley.
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The FGQ would just as well work since that area is mostly for beginners and for ski lessons. Plus it’s pretty short.
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Here are some remains of cornice II that I don’t mind you using https://share.icloud.com/photos/0GMyRUM3KIJ1JLBPStsqk3JAg#Squaw_Valley_Ski_Resort_&_Tahoe_National_Forest
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0D5Hc8TvJHdmLO4bdXd6nTPpg#Squaw_Valley_Ski_Resort_&_Tahoe_National_Forest
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Do you have these pictures somewhere else? The links that you put for C2 do not work anymore.
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Why does squaw valley hate footrests? I only see them on Squaw One Express and Silverado.
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It may have something to do with kids sitting too far forward in an attempt to put skis on the footrests and falling off of chairlifts.Just a theory but it may be the reason if I remember correctly.
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Headwall used to have them, and the Siberia six-pack had them when first constructed, only to have the footrests cut short to just the handles by opening day.
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Skilifts.org has some picks of old pulse gondi
http://www.skilifts.org/old/images/resort_images/ca-squawvalley/pulse/pulse.htm
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Interesting, didnt know they had 2 pulse lifts. I guess Leitner-Poma wasnt the first to turn a lift using canted tower sheaves on one massive tower. I was looking for the old pulse lift where the double chairs would face sideways.
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The Squaw pulse was more of a jigback lift.
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when is the new california express going to be built? It has already been approved.
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The Forest Service has not issued a final record of decision yet, only a draft. There is also a lawsuit seeking to stop the project.
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When do you think this gondola will be complete then? I remember that Squaw Valley said that it would be completed by 2019 2020 ski season but that probably won’t happen.
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My 2 cents but unless the plaintiffs can get a judge to give them an injunction to block the project (which I find hard to believe they will be able to) I bet it gets installed next summer. They are already working on the retaining walls on the Alpine side preparing for it.
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I believe you can see the top of the old Lost Lake lift in the pictures of Headwall.
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https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1854742,-120.254275,110m/data=!3m1!1e3
if you look at the street view here or the satellite you can see what is clearly the top terminal of an old YAN lift. It also ends near where lost lake used to end.
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It’s in one of peter’s pictures from headwall (far left side):
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I have a relative that used to be a lifty here. When I asked about that he told me it might have been an avvy gun.
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I’m pretty sure that black structure on the left is the top of lost lake, iirc. my ski instructor told me about it a long time ago so my memory of it may be a bit foggy
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you know I have been wondering something about Squaws Yan lifts. If you look at the lifting frames on the majority of their towers they are neither the classic Yan Y frames or the frame less towers (aside from the few Y frames on broken arrow and emigrant). I noticed that Alpine Meadows does not have lifting frames on any of its Yans exept for scott and that is a Garaventa/Yan. I am wondering if these unusual lifting frames are modifications made by Squaws lift ops at some point or were made by some other lift manufacture.
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https://skiliftblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/img_7850.jpg like this one
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Lifting frames by Squaw and local tramway engineer.
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I wonder why emigrant for example has some yan lifting frames but the rest are the local design, do you think that some of emigrants towers were reused, same for broken arrow?
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I think the lifting frames are doppelmayr.
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Emigrant has a little bit of everything. The original lift might have been a Hunsinger or Miner Denver? Think there a couple of original towers with Yan tops on them. Then Yan modification and Triple Chair. Think the cross arm with the Yan lifting has Doppelmayr 4T – 4D on it.
Broken Arrow lift was relocated. Used to be a top Drive lift. Can’t remember which lift it was off hand.
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Broken Arrow is the old Shirley Lake lift before it was replaced by a HSQ in 1986.
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Original Emigrant was Miner-Denver, twice modified by Lift Engineering or Squaw Valley Lift Maintenance using L/E parts.
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Weren’t Shirly Lake and Headwall Miner Denvers at one point?
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Yes, although there’s some question about the original Headwall – it may have been a Hjorth.
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The pics of Headwall I was able to find show Hjorth carriers and towers.
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They need to bring C2 back. I suggest they replace Red Dog with a HSQ and use the old Red Dog lift for the new Cornice II lift. C2 was always a great storm day chair, because it could run in storms while Headwall would have to be on wind hold. Plus having a C2 chair would further increase the Squallywood feel of Squaw by having a chair closer to the Squallywood lines. Having another chair running on a storm powder day would really help the stress in the KT lift line. They have enough towers and supplies from the Red Dog chair to make that move smooth and efficient.
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I think this one’s too optimistic unfortunately. Red Dog is a 1989 alpha so it probably will be re-located to a more useful/essential place (perhaps another alterra resort entirely). Even if they did find a cheap lift to install on C2, it would only be used on crowded storm days when headwall can’t operate but C2 theoretically could. That’s a very unique scenario that isn’t very common. Even under that scenario, it’d be fairly likely that people would opt to lap Squaw Creek or Red Dog instead of going through the hassle of accessing C2. Overall, it’s probably not worth the installation or maintenance costs for Squaw to re-install Cornice 2. Now that the old lift is gone, I’d say it’s unlikely we’ll see a lift there again.
A far better possible lift for to solve KT lines would be a surface lift from the bottom of gold coast chair to the top of headwall. It would run a line similar to where newport ran, but it would be far more useful as it would access all of headwall’s trails. This is a far better option than bringing back C2 (cheaper, better in the wind, accesses more trails) but would have the drawback of splitting chicken/north bowl.
Speaking of surface lifts, when broken arrow needs to be replaced it should be replaced with a surface lift starting slightly lower than the current double chair. The current profile has too many downhill sections to be replaced with a surface lift, but starting even just a few hundred feet lower would make it work.
I’d also like to see Squaw possibly expand at some point with new terrain. There’s a lot of good terrain just outside the area boundary, and there’s a bunch of places where a fixed grip or even surface lift would provide excellent skiing. Considering the amount of environmentalist push-back against Squaw in the past though, this one is probably a pipe dream.
Completely unrelated side note, but Silverado and Oly lady should be ran more often. Silverado exclusively accesses some of the best expert terrain on the planet and Oly lady was literally designed to relieve KT.
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I have to disagree with you on the surface lift from Gold Coast to the top of Headwall. While it may be cheaper and better in wind, it defiantly would not offer more trails. Having that would also be even more monotonous then installing a new C2. It would also be less aesthetically pleasing to do that as well.
Olympic Lady and C2 had the same design-to relieve KT and Headwall. It just makes sense if Red Dog was a highspeed quad, and the old Red dog chair became C2. That would create so much more flow on powder days, holidays, and storm days. The surface lift wouldn’t be used as a storm lift, because it would be considered an upper mountain lift, which is mostly closed on storm days.
As for Silverado, not only does it require a lot of snow for it to be open, but it’s altitude is pretty low. With those factors combined, Silverado cannot run frequently.
With it being 2020, wouldn’t most Alterra resorts have updated lifts? If so, then the old Red Dog chair wouldn’t really be needed at other resorts.
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“The surface lift wouldn’t be used as a storm lift, because it would be considered an upper mountain lift, which is mostly closed on storm days.”
Surface lifts are far more wind resistant than chairlifts. The idea would be that if the funitel is running, that lift can run too. It doesn’t matter if it’s upper mountain, it matters if it is wind resistant enough.
“With it being 2020, wouldn’t most Alterra resorts have updated lifts? If so, then the old Red Dog chair wouldn’t really be needed at other resorts.”
June Mountain CA is owned by Alterra and the only out of base lift there is a 1960 riblet/yan frankenlift.
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The main thing I can think is that both Squaw and Alpine could really use Red Dog in multiple places. It could be used to replace Alpine Bowl on a new alignment to the summit, the return is super compact and would fit there well. It could also be used to replace Subway and Meadows with one lift with a mid-station load unload. It would also work as a new lift near kangaroo which goes up above it. While the last is the least likely there are a ton of placements which it could go on. Not only that but the length of the lift and number of chairs means it could be split up to do at least two of these projects to save money, say one gets a new drive and return. There are probably a ton more places it could go between the resorts but these are just the most sensible.
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I think the best relocation for the old Red Dog chair at Squalpine is a lift up Beaver Bowl above Kangaroo. That would eliminate a ton of traversing from summit to access that terrain and it just so happens that it would be about the same length as the current lift to reach the top of Beaver Bowl from the base of Kangaroo.
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that would be great and all but Alterra has seemed to have all but abandoned those plans. I do agree that would be a good placement though.
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Squaw did an incredible job of fixing the high-camp/gold coast area. It went from being a jumbled mess of lifts (half of which were useless) to just making sense. My only criticism is that Siberia, Emigrant and Big Blue make Gold Coast a bit redundant (the only thing Gold Coast does that the other two don’t is serve two beginner runs). Outside of that, Siberia, Emigrant and Big blue are just better. Siberia and emigrant service more terrain and Big Blue gets you to high camp or the backside quicker.
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I can see why you would think that. However, Squaw’s main park is the same location where Goldcoast is. You take Gold Coast out, then that park is a pain to get to. I do agree that Squaw did a fantastic job cleaning up the beginner area.
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Is the first gen Emigrant double missing here? According to skilifts.org, that could have been a SLI double: http://www.skilifts.org/old/ca-squawvalley.htm
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Two more lifts that might be missing: Little KT 22 (maybe a Poma double: http://chairlift.org/pics/squaw/sq14.jpg) and Siberia (a double: https://skimap.org/data/538/7/1274678303.jpg).
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Little KT 22 is listed as Searchlight. It was renamed to Searchlight at some point.
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The latest California Express rumor I heard: the project is going to officially be announced as ready to build after this season when Squaw Valley announces its name change. As a side note, the new name will encompass the whole resort, as they want it to start being viewed as one ski area similar to Park City. I have heard they may call either the current Squaw side or the entire resort “Olympic Valley”, while Alpine Meadows will remain the name of only its respective side and not the entire resort. The gondola itself can be built in one summer, but they may say it will take two and do the majority of the work in 2022 depending on Alterra’s new adjusted capital expenditures plan (whether they simply push back most projects by a year or simply put all the delayed 2020 work in 2021 and keep to the original timeline). The other reason for it to be listed as a two-year project is because Red Dog will be replaced at the same time. Additionally, work on the Squaw village expansion is expected to begin right around the time the gondola is completed, as that will allow them to use Alpine Meadows parking for Squaw skiers and not leave them temporarily short on parking spaces.
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Olympic Valley is the obvious choice as the new name. It will be interesting to see if they can work a deal with the US Olympic Committee and use the word ‘Olympic’ for commercial gain. My understanding is the USOC owns trademark rights to the word ‘Olympic.’ The top of KT has recently been surveyed for the gondola mid station, but that in and of itself does not mean that it will be built.
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Even if the word “Olympic” is trademarked, that does not mean any phrase containing the word Olympic is out of the question. There are numerous active trademarks for phrases containing “Olympic” that are not owned by any association with ties to the games. Olympic Valley itself looks like it may have been briefly trademarked in the 90s by a farm in Washington state.
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The thing to remember here is the use of the word for commercial gain. Is the USOC going to go after a farm in Washington State, or a bike shop in Tahoe City? Probably not. Are they going to take exception to Alterra using the word ‘Olympic’ in naming a Tahoe ski resort, and profiting off use of the word? More likely than not. I personally think Olympic Valley would be the logical choice moving forward, but we’ll have to see how it plays out.
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The one thing about the gondola that worries me is that it might lead to KT (espescially west KT) getting skied off much faster. We’ll have to see though.
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Based on the maps and renderings they have released, it looks like it will be hard to ski from the KT station over to the east side of KT. It seems as though the terminal will be somewhere around the top of Nose or Chute 75, and the precise location in that area will be key in determining the ability to head over to the east side.
Personally, I think it will be okay. KT’s capacity is only 2100 and the gondola will be roughly 1400. Even if all gondola riders got off at KT (which will not happen), it would still be less than a six-pack.
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Adding to this with the latest information I heard regarding the name change: It will likely be announced at some point during the season, and the new favorite is some sort of geographic reference (likely something referring to Lake Tahoe, California, or the Sierra Nevada). The Squaw Valley village/base will likely be rebranded as the Olympic Valley village/base while the Alpine Meadows base will keep its existing name. Having the entire resort being named Olympic Valley in addition to the village on one side was thought to be a bit confusing and not unifying.
The question over whether Califorina Express/Red Dog 2.0 will happen over this upcoming summer or the next two summers (with the majority of the work being in 2022) is still up in the air, as Alterra’s new capital expenditures plan will be determined by how profitable this winter is.
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Did they take any of my suggestions? CarPark City? The One Vallee?
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If it were me i would call the entire resort “Alpine Meadows Resort”. Maybe call the current Alpine Meadows “Base Lodge Base” and the current Squaw Valley “Village Base”. While it is not at the level of Squaw, Alpine does have brand equity. Corporations always underestimate the amount of time/$$ it takes to establish a new brand. They should triple down on Alpine Meadows and be done with it.
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Does anyone know what that old top bullwheel under headwalls first mini breakover is? never noticed it until today but I also dont ski squaw very often
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Lost Lake Triple
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Here are my Chair/tower standings for Squaw Valley:
Siberia Express: 56/13 (I think the HSQ had 54, but not sure)
Big Blue Express: 64/15
Shirley Lake Express: 55/12
Gold Coast Express: 56/1
Emigrant: 102/12
Red Dog: 151/16
Belmont: 38/4
Mountain Meadow: 54/8
KT-22: 93/?
Bailey’s Beach: 36/6
Head wall Express: 76/22
Granite Chief: 112/15
Solitude: 101/12
Squaw One: 141/24
Hope this helps!
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Apparently in the 1970s Headwall and Siberia had midway unloading stations. I was listening to a lifty from that time period talking with the daughter of the man who flattened Squaw Peak. I can’t find any old maps that show it, or any photos though.
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I do not recall a mid-unload on Headwall, but Siberia definitely did have one. When looking at the current lift, it was at approximately where Tower 9 stands today. I remember Siberia because it was a classic Riblet double; very old school with the ramp one had to side-step to board the lift. Someone would fall almost always lose balance; causing the other skiers waiting below them in line to fall like dominoes.
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Came across a few pictures of the old Squaw One double chair. It ran about 600 feet higher up from the top of the current Squaw One Express. The jigback tram was built next to the top of this chair and can be seen in the third photo.
Fist photo is opening day 1949
Second was not dated but likely around the same time as there is still no development at the base
Third has to be after 1951 as that’s when the jigback tram was constructed
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remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/cache/stations/478/photos/squaw_tsf2squawoneg1.jpg
remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/cache/stations/478/photos/squaw_tsf2squawonegravure.jpg
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Heron lift with the famous rubber cones banded on the haulrope. Think it was replaced with the Yan triple in 1978 or 1979.
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You can see the remnants of old lifts like here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wuc8D-MDbuKysZdfFfEVLFx82y__bjeC/view?usp=sharing
(Cornice II tower 6)
But which lift are these two towers from? The Super Squaw triple?:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WijI0PO3zVMz5sQCaSzIn068kiZ8_3nQ/view?usp=sharing
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Those two towers were from the Headwall Triple Chair. Chair prior to the current six pack.
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It looks like the old Links or Belmont also had footrests so they probably removed them from that lift as well.
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https://garydavisgroup.com/civil/46/53/Squaw%20Valley%20Ski%20Corporation
A few pics of the funitel construction here
https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/station-squaw-valley-478.html
And here if anyone cares about that
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There are two lifts I’d love to see photos of: Cornice 1 and Lost Lakes.
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Peter, I just noticed that you combined the two pages (squaw and alpine) but what about all the comments on the removed alpine page? Are they all gone? Also, the url still reads “squaw-valley-ca”
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Some construction images of the California Express:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VV-aqQRFmezskBaxeNlNJpczwj9t6Bnf?usp=sharing
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We can’t see those without permission. Is it possible that you can make it so we don’t need permission to see it?
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I think it works now
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If you go to
https://www.palisadestahoe.com/mountain-information/webcams#tab=olympic-valley
And use the Olympic Valley Base 6800′ Cam and move the camera to KT-22, you can see the gondola’s towers going up to the mid station. Also, if you use the KT/Exhibition base button and then turn the camera to red dog you can for a short time see the base of the gondola.
Also, if you use the Palisades Tahoe Scope 8200′ Cam and switch to Kt-22 top you can see the mid station foundation and towers
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I was up in Tahoe over the weekend and I got some great construction photos!
California Express images:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VV-aqQRFmezskBaxeNlNJpczwj9t6Bnf
Alpine Meadows lodge construction:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-0NrWZjyyJsCsfagFIdNiNOLtstbtrIT
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Some of Google’s street view in at least the high camp region is older than 2007, so maybe screenshots can be taken of the old lifts in that area.
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This might be a little corny, but I think “Squall Valley” would have been a good replacement name. Sounds similar to the previous name and has something to do with snow (snow squall).
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Found this article that states that the old Mainline lift is awaiting installation up by Graeagle, CA. I wonder if it will ever happen.
https://tahoequarterly.com/winter-2018-2019/a-shuttered-ski-resort-hopes-for-a-future
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The lifties at Olympic valley are taking the chairs off emigrant for the season:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/142mGQpexZrpPQ-0j3_xkMZsWN_sAl8v2/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14nvG853eQvjSVZfxv2yPW-QKST_a1HKY/view?usp=drivesdk
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I wonder why they’re taking the chairs off. Is it maintenance?
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The mechanics are, and they’re probably only taking off the 20% NDT group.
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At least 20% come off annually for Non destructive testing of the grips and carriers.
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palisades tahoe ops blog said that we should say goodbye to the Red Dog Triple, as it is being replaced with a HSS, interesting that they chose HSS and not HSQ for a lift that rarely has a line. will be cool to see how they implement a larger chair in that space
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They probably want to have larger chair spacing (to prevent misloads/misunloads) and also heavier chairs for wind tolerance.
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The chair spacing makes sense, but there isn’t much wind on the red dog line, save for the part where it is suspended high in the air. Will they use the existing towers or put in new ones? I’ve never seen a detachable chair that high above the ground
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I would imagine they’ll eliminate the flying return and put traditional towers in that span. Although just because we’ve never seen a detach with a flying return doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen.
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@pbropetch: There are a few detaches with light-side flyovers.
Northwest Magnum 6 has one at tower 8 due to geography necessitating an offset tower that could support sheaves for the uphill line.
And here’s one at Owl’s Head:
And I’d say that Outlaw’s mid-station counts as a “flying return” for the downhill line due to the lift’s profile.
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Red Dog rarely has lines when everything is open. However, when the Upper Mountain is closed due to wind, Red Dog gets backed up (along with the other couple of lifts that are able to remain open).
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The Drive moves East of the beginner area. Not the same lift line.
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The official plans for the red dog replacement are here: https://www.placer.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/36719/SR-F-PC-18-00280-Red-Dog-ChairLift-052319-ALL
For the images look at pages 47-61
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this is from 2019. is it the same plan or have some things changed?
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I’m pretty sure that it hasn’t changed, but I could be wrong.
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Old super gondola. https://mountainscholar.org/bitstream/handle/11124/8679/R1034.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y That’s one heck of a height and tower!
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Was the old top terminal in the same building as the top of the funitel today?
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the funitel building was built when the funitel was. I don’t know of any images of the old top terminal
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correction. the black part of the funitel building (the long part) is new, bc they couldn’t fit the funi in the gondola building, which was the normal-sized part of it. that’s why you have to walk so far to get from where you get off the terminal to the exit.
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one of the old riblet doubles that was here https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-lawyer-and-businessman-alexander-cochrane-cushing-news-photo/494965695
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I believe this was the original Siberia Lift. In the pic, one can see the mid unload in the trees about two towers below where this pic was taken.
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Siberia was a Riblet. The bottom Drive terminal burned down in the fall of 1978 and we replaced it with a Yan Drive terminal that was sitting in the Homewood parking lot. It was supposed to be part of a 2 lift expansion at Homewood that never happened.
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One of the yan lifts that was up here https://mountainscholar.org/bitstream/handle/11124/9225/R1047.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
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By the looks of the terrain, I believe this is the old Links chair.
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as in the links lift that was in until like 2012 or a links lift that came before?
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There were two Links chairs? I believe there was only one that followed the original line that unloaded near the top of East Broadway and Shirley. Kirk and others on this site may be able to confirm. Links was then realigned, converted to a triple, renamed Meadow, and changed from counterweight to hydraulic tensioning sometime in the early- to mid-2010s.
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Renamed “Mountain Meadow.”
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Links wasn’t realigned. Mountain Meadow is the old High Camp chair.
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The worlds longest double chair back in the day https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=1681010&page=2&q=Ski+lift&rows=200&year_start=1949
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Stop by at the base of Olympic Valley yesterday out of curiosity for Red Dog Express’s progress, since Alterra’s focus has been on California Express.
Lift line is cut and looks like all the necessary erosion work was done, couldn’t spot any towers installed from the base area. The existing buildings cited to be removed in the 2019 plan are still standing as far as I could tell.
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The new trail map is out for Palisades Tahoe… and it looks horrible. I will be honest, this may just be more of a problem with VistaMap overall, as I am not a fan of their maps, but the sense of scale, depth, and location is all off. I understand it is a massive, sprawling complex, but James Niehues did an excellent job navigating similar challenges at Big Sky and Park City and created gorgeous maps.
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Same thing with steamboat, the second stage for the Wild blue gondola has the whole lift line cut but on a map it’s misaligned in 3 sections.
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Where is the new map because I can’t find it
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The Palisades Tahoe app has the new map.
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the thing about PCMR map is that its one face/angle that the map is drawn from. the issue with palisades is that its multiple mountains behind each other, and even they managed that well with the silverado inset to get all of broken arrow in view, but with two mountains so large that aren’t linearly aligned with each other, its a lot harder. I agree that the new trail map is ugly, no doubt, but those other ones you mentioned didn’t have the same issue. Big sky is closer to that issue, but still uses an inset for its south face terrain. The only way palisades could make it good would be to have an alpine inset that is just as big, and just not have the gondola connected on the map
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I’m curious if the the Gondola’s installation causes Alterra to consider some out of base upgrades for Alpine Meadows, with more demand being pushed over there.
The only one I can really see is Roundhouse becoming a six. Maybe they’ll pivot back to the rollers lift in some of their earlier proposals, and that might justify some love for kangaroo
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Pure SWAG, but given the new alignment of the Base to Base, not sure if Rollers is ever going to happen.
I believe the next lift project will be to replace Subway and Meadows with one lift from bottom of Subway to top of Meadows. This should be a HSQ, but perhaps they will make it fixed grip. The reason for HSQ would be that this new lift while super short would serve both as an access lift from the lower parking lot (needs high capacity) as well as a beginner lift (slow on/off).
Agree on Roundhouse upgrade to HSS at some point due to its age.
Summit has been having increased east wind holds in the last few years which would lead me to believe that at some point they will need to find a way to address/mitigate. Not sure if this is a new lift (HSE for chair weight/capacity?) potentially realigned somehow to mitigate wind, or some other mitigating solution. But it is something that Alpine will need to fix in the medium term.
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What lift replaced AM Express?
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Summit on the Alpine side.
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