This lift has the largest vertical of any gondola in North America.Mt. Howard and Wallowa Lake. The top terminal is in the upper left corner.Bottom terminal with gearbox visible.Bottom terminal depression “saddles.”Lower station overview.View up the very steep lift line.Top station launch zone.Countdown clock for operators to know when to send the next cabin by hand.Turnaround up top with counterweight below.Top bullwheel carriage.Arrival side at the top station.CWA cabin and double grip/hanger.The breakover.Top terminal turnaround rail.Tower 24.There are two “supply” baskets.Depression towers 20-22.That view!Tower 19 looking up.Surrounded by high peaks.Grip seen from below.Tower 14.Passing a downbound cabin.Middle part of the line.Riding up the steep first section.Lower part of the line above Wallowa Lake State Park.This hande launches each cabin.Cabins are well cared for.These cabins are not original; they came from a Mueller lift.Bottom terminal with manual power.Grip closeup.Drive bullwheel down below.
The cabins are well cared for, the entire lift has gone through a complete overhaul in the last 8 years. New cabin floors and windows, Skytrac drive and controls, all sheave assemblies have been rebuilt, new LST sheave wheels, gearbox rebuilt, lift repainted, new com-line, new bull wheel bearings and counterweight rope are going in this fall, also the area was able to acquire all of the grip parts from Sterling Vineyards so the old girl is looking and running great!
xtrwheels onCable wire rope gripping devise can only have wheels for coupling or uncoupling on the outside side. The Giovanola grip however has rollers on either side of the wire rope. This concept has caused in a number of wire rope derailment that the lift would not stop and the wire rope grip would continue running right over the sheave assembly without stopping. The gravity launch coupling and uncoupling as still in use at the Wallowa lake gondola has bin has bin ceased in Europe for at least 20 years. Reason, the coupling and uncoupling speed is dependent on the amount of weight in the cabin as grip and cabin roll down the slanted rails. Due to the uneven coupling and uncoupling process the wear and tear on internal grip parts is extreme. For this reason since the 1970 automatic coupling and uncoupling bin in use that while after coupling on wire rope the gripping force automatically checked.
All Giovanola cable grip system design or other with rollers on both side of the wire rope carriage design, to cease operations by European law in 2025. These lifts where sold and manufactured by, Habegger, Von Roll, WSO Städeli, Hall and Skirail.
Most certainly there will be some hardship. It would not be prudent to operate with that system in any other Country as otherwise it be we told you so.
All of Europe or just Switzerland? Which gondolas with Giovanola grips were sold and manufactured by Von Roll and Skirail? Intamin, Pohlig, PHB and PWH are missing in your list.
As I understand the law is for all of Europe and has bin in the making for years. Back in 1983 Lift Engineering installed a Habegger Gondola system to Squaw Valley and Keystone Colorado. Either of these 2 installation where removed after 2 years, the reason being that Habegger got bought out by Von Roll and Von Roll did not wanting to continue with a system that had a blemished history. In short, it was clear that the system be replaced with new technology.
Seilritter37 – Your contributions to this thread have been incredibly interesting and invaluable. Thank you.
You’ve mentioned several times that the NW aspect of the gondola line was one of the challenges in this location becoming a proper ski resort. Did you ever ski the northerly or NE aspects of the mountain towards McCully Creek that presumably would not experience the same sun/aspect challenges? It appears as though that also would have removed the bottom 600-800′ of elevation below the moraine, potentially making those aspects skiable to the valley floor, or close there to. There are the same elevations/aspects that the current Ferguson Ridge ski resort operate in just a mile or three to the East.
Yes, I skied off that mountain in every direction and have incredible fond memories for most outings. Certainly the mountain had much to offer. With the Wallowa Wilderness touching the area and the remote location a regular ski resort would not be feasible. My vision was for offering Winter sports weeks, With skiing, touring, cross country and activity at the base lodge. Either was the money there or the enthusiasm. In German, es wird nie ein guter Brei der zuviele würzen denn einer wird mit Geschrei auf den andern stürzen.
Wallowa lake Tramway ( Gondola ) cabin history: These cabins where manufactured by CWA, Olten, Switzerland for a Mueller gondola installation in Glacier Park. That project failed during its installation do to financing issues. The cabins then where stored for years in a warehouse until Park City, Utah bought some of the cabins for it’s PHB gondola as replacement for the original PHB Cabins. However Park City decided to purchase new cabins from CWA and the cabins where once again up for sale. In the meantime I sold the old PHB gondola from Squaw Valley to Big Sky Resort in Montana. Big Ski then purchased some or all cabins from Park City. The now relocated Gondola with the from Park City purchased cabins operated from year 1985 to 1999 when the Gondola machinery was removed and replaced with a chairlift. Some of the now retired Gondola Cabins at Big Sky then where re-purchased by Wallowa Lake Tramway Corporation where they have bin in use to replace the Hall fiberglass cabins that where supplied with all the machinery equipment.
Glacier Park is in Montana and Canada. The Mueller designed gondola was sold from there office in Canada. If the gondola was being installed on the Canada side of the Park or the Montana side I don’t know.
The Cabins used at Wallowa Lake, Sugarbowl and a couple of installations in Mexico have in around since the late 1960this and where stored in Canada for many years. Some of the cabins went to Park City but never came in use until Ctec purchase some of the cabins from Park City for its upgrade of the Sugarbowl. igi1983 I sold on instruction from Hans Burkhard the Squaw Valley gondola to Big Sky Montana. Big Sky bought then additional cabins from Park City to increase the capacity. These cabins then found there way to Wallowa lake Gondola.
Talking about the old Mt. Hays Gondola, I found this video that shows some of the old Mueller gondola towers for the lift. The towers can be seen at 2:22 (barely), and at 5:33, you get a good shot of a Mueller tower.
Apparently the financing fell true and that at a time when actually the corporation was as far with the installation that the wire rope was to be spliced. At least that is what I bin told. As for some of these cabins being still in use or the cable grips is beyond my comprehension.
Does anyone know why the Mt. Hays gondola wasn’t used for sightseeing after the skiing operation closed down? It’s closer to a town of decent size than Wallowa Lake is and Wallowa Lake is still operating.
Yes it is detachable! In itself it was a very unique piece of engineering considering it’s design dates back into the 50tis. The internal mechanism works sort like one would use a prier bar to move a heavy object. In this case the weight of cabin and grip with hanger, with or without passenger, is translated into a downward force that the internal mechanism multiplies in clamping force on the grip jaws to the cable. The first installations in use in Switzerland had only 2 people cabins and the grip had one hanger pipe only. The grip with cabin and passenger was launched with sort of a spring tensioned arm that the station operator would pull and in turn catapult the cabin on to the moving wire rope. At the time it was kind of on exhilarating thing to ride in.
Skier 72. Thanks for posting the video from Mt. Hays and what remains from the near completed Mueller Gondola project. As I was told by CWA personal that about the time the wire rope got spliced the financial lenders offer fell true. At the time, the CWA cabins had just arrived in Canada and so then got stored near the Harbor in a storage space in the hope of a solution to the project that did not come about. In about year 1988 I sold and drove to Baine, Washington to pickup 4 of these cabins for Sugar Bowl. Those where the last cabins that entered still in new condition into this country. .
In my opinion the lift and upper station are really not designed for winter operations and would be outright dangerous if a lift evacuation would have to be done The machinery and equipment is old and outdated making operations even more of a challenge.
Yes, Skiing was much in consideration in the early years of operations. I took over the management and operation of the then called Wallowa Lake Gondola in 1971, since I was involved with the construction of the machinery that we built at Hall Ski Lift, Watertown, N,Y plant. We felt immediately that the mountain could offer more then just Summer operations. We got a remorse approval from the Forest Ranger, to operate a handle tow ski lift on the summit above the upper gondola station. The corporation also bought a used Poma lift from Anthony Lakes Ski Area out of Baker, Oregon and for that installation we needed an environmental review report. From there on, everything started to unravel in many different ways. First, myself, I realized that a full size ski resort was not affordable or feasible due to Wind and weather that would shut down the Gondola Operation. My plan was to create a Winter sports week with, Cross Country, Skiing, Snow survival training, Snow shoeing and so on. Unfortunately, to many clueless individuals got involved and an Environmental report was created that showed 4 or 5 Chairlifts, without having any funds to pay for. In short, I skied that mountain more then anybody, skiing was a dream come true on good days and was horrible on bad days. In addition one had to walk off from the top of the moraine back to the lower station and is no easy task, but is on area that hardly ever had snow to ski on. As for the Gondola now, well it has to be the most out dated equipment there is and to do anything on that mountain would require new machinery.
I assume ski racks were never mounted on the cabins; but are you saying there WAS a season where customers skied the summit tow? When you say moraine, does that mean you descended the north aspects of Howard and had to cross the lateral moraine that holds the lake? If so, there must also be stories of someone skiing that steep, direct section of the liftline?
The Gondola started to operate in late Summer of 1970 and was equipped with Hall Ski lift fiberglass cabins and those cabins had no ski racks. I had then a few racks fabricated and installed so we could get up in the Winter to do snow survey and transport up local ski enthusiasts on some days. As for the summit tow, it never materialized for various good and bad reasons. Yes the slope we skied most, faces mostly to the West and it is the evening sun that caused the great powder snow conditions to deteriorate. I did with friends, skied about any decent off the mountain. Of course the lift line was much narrower back then and snow was scared from tower 6 down. A mistakable trek to navigate it on foot. The cabins that are now in use where bought from Big Ski Montana by the present owners and where not designed for this installation.
In summery, that project was poorly planned from day one since it was financed by FHA that in reality never wanted to get involved with the financing on this project, but was sort of pressured by US Congressman to do so. This project would make a good story for a book, on how not to plan a privat project.
Seilritter37 those cabins couldn’t have come from Big Sky. I’m pretty sure Big Sky’s original cabins were sigma’s wacky french cabins, then those were replaced with CWA cabins from Park City that ended up in a maintenance lot off of ME Rte 27 just north of the Sugarloaf access road; both of those cabins (the early Sigmas and the Park City CWAs) were totally different from the cabins on this lift. These cabins came from a Mueller gondola, though I’m not sure which one.
One additional interesting part is, how come Park City never used these cabins on there PHB Gondolas at the time, after they where bought? The answer might be, that Park City personal overlooked the fact that the Gondolas where for right side uphill loading and these cabins from Mueller where for a left uphill installation intended. It would had bin a cumbersome task to have skiers walk around the door to enter the cabin with the much higher uphill capacity then the summer operation has at Wallowa Lake. Park City then bought new Cabins from CWA.
Yes that is how we skied that area of the mountain! The lower part never had snow and so from the moraine down one had to walk. The area where we could ski on was from fantastic to bad as the afternoon sun was very intense on that slope. The original Hall Cabins had no ski racks. Yes I skied the lifeline down to about tower 7 and then angled off to the south as the rest of the lift line had not sufficient snow. We further skied the open hillside more to the south. On paper all looks good in reality it is a different story.
Is it correct that “High Wallowas, Inc.” first sought for a permit to install a ski lift in 1973, but nothing really happened the following years? A spokesman of the company said in 1978 that skiing should only bring enough income to “maintain the gondola property”. And for the 79/80 season you started selling lift tickets for $12? But when did you stop offer skiing? https://www.oregonlive.com/terryrichard/2010/01/high_wallowas_remember_skiing.html
I still don’t completely understand the story around the cabins. The gondola was first equipped with classic Skycruiser cabins (did they come from the same Salt Lake City based supplier that made them for the Park City gondola?) where you later installed a few racks (I do have a picture of a such a cabin). But what about Squaw and Big Sky? Did some of the PC cabins that went to Big Sky finally made it to Wallowa (like Rene Thoeni said) before all cabins were eventually replaced with CWA ones?
And last but not least, the other problematic PHB relocation, was that the one in Lutsen, MN?
Moutaineer, On interesting book could be written about this Gondola, as from day one obstacles where a constant partner. During the design and fabrication face I was still working for Hall Ski Lift in Watertown New York, with the assistance from a leading Engineer from PHB out of Köln, Germany and a young Engineer that prior worked at Von Roll, Switzerland. But as I later learned is that when push comes to shove, the bosses will say, oh no we can do this simpler and cheaper and that was the case here and years later at Squaw Valley with the Lift Engineering Gondola where I was during the installation in charge of the mechanical installation with the Von Roll Engineers. Just a background! As for the original cabins they where fabricated by Hall Ski Lift Co. in Watertown NY consisting of a steel tubular tube frame and fiberglass Schell. There where no ski holders at the time. The gondola was originally designed for double the capacity. In year 1971 i took over as General Manager at Wallowa Lake! With the Gondola Cabin’s we found out that on busy days the lift line was to long, but in the meantime the Hall Ski lift cost doubled and so we bought 4 Cabins and Geovanola Hangers from CWA, Olten Switzerland! these very same cabins and color, like the ones Vale bought except our are 4 passengers. I had some ski racks fabricated as we started to work on an environmental study, and to try out the possibility of skiing the 3700 vertical feet slopes. These cabins where in use until the early 1990this. The new ownership of the Gondola then bought equipment and cabins from Big Big Sky, Montana that had removed the Gondola it had bought 10 or so years earlier the old PHB Gondola from Squaw Valley. However Big Sky bought additional cabins from Park City that in turn had bought those cabins from Mueller, Canada that had built a lift in Glacier Park, a Corporation that went bankrupt before it ever opened. To say the the equipment is old is an understatement. Last but not least, the original manufacturer PHB went bankrupt in 1985 and that makes the system a safety concern, as regular bulletins would be released by PHB in regards the the cable grips and other moving equipment. The corporation that manufactured the running sheaves stopped manufacturing them in 1985 A long story but that yes I was involved with the project from day one and am still alive to talk about.
So I try to summarize, please correct me if I’m wrong:
Squaw Valley: PHB Skycruiser cabins (made in SLC like the ones for Park City?) > gondola and Skycruiser? cabins sold to Big Sky in 1983 (two thirds of the cabins were scrapped according to an interview with John Kircher)
Treasure Mountain (Park City): PHB Skycruiser cabins (made in SLC) > at some point replaced with Skycruiser? cabins from Hall (according to chairlift.org/parkcity.html) > PC bought the CWA cabins from failed project in Glacier Park > completely new CWA cabins in 1982 while the “used” CWA cabins were sold to Big Sky in 1983 (according to Kircher, they bought 56 of them – the Hall Skycruiser cabins were scrapped?)
Big Sky: used Skycruiser or CWA cabins from both Squaw and PC (oddly an old picture shows Kircher with a completely different cabin in the background (the ones you would see on a GMD or Bell gondola), I try to share it here soon) > > gondola was removed in 1996 and CWA cabins were sold to Wallowas
Wallowas: Hall Skycruiser cabins > a few years later you added ski racks to a few cabins and bought four new CWA cabins with Giovanola hangers, that means you operated two different cabins at the same time? > Hall Skycruiser cabins replaced by CWA cabins from Big Sky in 1996
Maybe you can also shed some light on why Hall entered into an agreement with PHB in 1966, but did already build own gondolas in 1968 (I know about the involvement of the PHB engineer for the line profile, but most of the gondola is Hall)? Did that agreement just include some kind of knowledge transfer to enable Hall to build detachable lifts?
As for the bankruptcy, according to my knowledge that was in 1988. A company called O&K then bought the ropeway division (which was pretty small compared to PHB’s other divisions) and it became PWH a year later. Most of it was eventually sold to Doppelmayr in 1994. The only thing of PHB that survived is the cable crane division at thyssenkrupp.
Dopplemayr FTW is wrong, there where never Poma Cabins on the PHB gondola, except that there might on attempt was tried to do so and if done so it would had bin a dangerous thing to do. The the cable grip is of total different design. I was put in charge at Squaw Valley by Hans Burkhardt the President of Squaw Valley at the time, to see for a buyer of the PHB Gondola and I made the original sales agreement with Big Sky. After the PHB Gondola was installed at Big Sky, Scott Bowmen then Mountain Manager, hired me to inspect the PHB Gondola installed. At that time there where where cabins that came with the equipment from Squaw Valley and Mueller cabins that John Kircher had bought from Park City.
MOUNTAINEER, No CP Cabin made it back to Wallowa Lake and all the are CWA De Luxe models. In regards to Lutsen Mountain cabins, another bad replant from Loon Mountain, I am not certain right now if those cabins where Hall Cabins that where basically a copy of the PC cabins. I have a postcard mailer the shows the Loon Mountain Gondola with the typical 3 pod tower and the cabin shown appears to be a Hall fabrication. But somehow when I was at Lutsen Mountain those cabins did not look the same design. . Last I was asked how did Hall Ski Lift got to work with PHB, Mr Hall tried to work together with Habegger Thun Switzerland that was an early leader in gondola and ropeway technic and I personly visited mit Vic Hall the facilities in Thun, But Habegger was way to slow to provide information for possible projects and so Ed( Forgot his last name ) the person that had sold the Park City Installation, got in touch with Hall and arranged the the work asociation.
I am aware of the French built cabins, that where on the original Poma Gondola. However, additional cabins where needed for the old PHB Gondola from Squaw Valley that Big Sky had just bought and installed. Big Sky bought these cabins from Park City, Utah and we sold some of the Cabin attachments. Yes after Big Sky removed the PHB Gondola, the cabins then where parked at the B.S. maintenance yard, where I sah them there myself. Following some sheave trains and cabins then ended up in Wallowa where the cabins bin refurbished to its present look. If you look at above photos, you will notice that the door opening is in reverse since those cabins where made for a left hand uphill loading and Wallowa Gondola is right hand uphill loading.
It is true the Mueller cabins had surface work over, but the steel tubular skeleton frame little can be done to and corrosion there is the main problem and should be of the main concern.
But do you know when the Skycruiser cabins at Squaw got replaced with the ones that were sold to Big Sky? And who made those, CWA or maybe even Swoboda?
Many of the Squaw cabins got damaged in transit and in year 1984-85 I sold to Big Sky the cross members that attach to the cabin where the cable grip hanger gets attached. By then Big Sky had the cabins from Park City on site and again those are CWA cabins just like the ones that are still here at Sugarbowl.
I was told that the Mueller looking cabins replaced the original cabins at Squaw Valley when their gondola was still operating. I was also told that those cabins came from Switzerland (maybe Mueller or CWA?). They definitely operated at Squaw Valley.
Max – Don’t forget that Big Sky had two gondola lines in the late ’80 to mid ’90s. The Gondola One had the L’Oeufs Francais/Clamshell-style cabins until it underwent a refit with a new base terminal/cabins (then cratered in an accident). Gondola Two had problems and ran intermittently until it was refit as a detach quad. Adding to the confusion: this thread has overlapping/intertwining timelines for the events concerning all of these cabins.
SEILRITTER37 – Love your stories, as I had relatives in the area and always had questions about the Mt Howard gondola. It IS a story on how not to plan a project, however it is also the classic American story of contribute to a congressman to get wheels greased and paperwork signed!
Was the liftline widened for safety? FS request?
Such a large area; did you scout your descents, or go by aerial photography, or just what you could see from the lift?
Did you aim for a return to the base or ski out other ridges/drainages toward the lake?
One reason I ask is because I can’t think of any other sightseeing lift in N.A. where only a few people have skied down (not possible at, say, Palm Springs or Albuquerque). Whereas in the Alps some of the classic descents were actually built for sightseeing.
First in regards to Big Sky, yes in year 1983 we sold the Squaw Valley PHB to Big Sky! B.S had a local Engineering Firm doing the re-location design for installation, A problematic decision, as really only the original manufacturer can re-design a Gondola and its upgrade or there be problems in the future and that has proven to be so. I reviewed the lift after it was installed and had some concerns, with similar problems I found years later an another PHB installation. In regards to the Mueller lift cabins, I bought the last 4 never used cabins from Mueller Canada in 1988 and sold them to Sugar Bowl, in Norden, California. At that time the number 2 Gondola at Big Sky was still running. Yes the name Mt Howard Gondola was selected by the board of directors the year I started to manage the operation. The lift-line at the time true the forest was so narrow where the Forest Service hoped it could not bin seen from a distance. After I rode up one day, with the Forest Ranger a tree branch creeped into the cabin and scratched the Rangers face, that prompted the removal of a few more trees. But while I was there until 1978 the lift line stayed narrow and in fact reduced the wind affect, but was also a concern of fallen trees. As for skiing, I got to know the mountain sort of like the inside of my pants pockets, so the skiing was often more like lets try this or that this time and it was a lot of fun. One time there was a meeting at Valies dinner and since I was late skied right to there front porch and people to this date don’t belief this was possible, Another time a pilot in a Cessna reported that he sah some crazy people to the right of the Gondola and as far as he could see they where on skis. People that I skied with, where the Snow Rangers from Alta, Utah, Antony Lake ski patrollers and Spout Springs ski instructors to name a few. In short it saddens me that we could not succeed with the development plan of winter sports weeks, where we could offer any winter snow activity on a small scale, By doing so the many beautiful cabins nearby would had bin able to rent them summer like winter and the Gondola operation actually would had made some money.
POSTMILAN You are absolutely right it is a classic American story, that I seen in my 60 year of ski and lift industry repeat itself dozens of times! Except up to the early 1980ties a handshake still had a meaning and that in most cases was a good thing. Victor Hall the founder of Hall Ski Lift would call up to Canada and say, here or there a person wants a ski lift and I am comming up. For me and my workers it was like Christmas knowing we would have another ski lift to build. But when the Wallowa Lake people called up to Hall things where slightly different, where wish was to build a gondola but in essence they had no money, but where in hope possibly to get an FHA loan. Except they needed drawings and a price quotation of such a project and if the deal came true Hall would get the job to build it. Hall ski lift agreed and requested a profile from the mountain, The Wallowa folks promptly hired a survey that would do the work cheap and Hall with profile on hand engineered with collaboration from PHB the gondola. With FHA still trying to come up with road blocks requested that I belief 60 % of the county population had to become stock holders, a situation were some of the 50 dollar investment stock holders felt they would have more to say then me as the General Manager. Since I am Swiss born and speak the German language I was sent to Wallowa from Watertown NY to finish mechanical details of the installation. When I got to the location, the first view was that on tower ! the cable was hanging up about 20 feet over the sheave assemblies and at that point I knew, oh boy there is a real problem here. A professional survey had to be taken and some of the towers where of by some 80 feet off in contrast to the false profile first provided and towers where also out of line. For this and other reason the lift got then only to operate about a year later as planed. In answer about skiing the the the mountain from top to bottom, we skied exactly how you described, except the area from the top of the moraine back to the lower Gondola terminal was almost always bear and we had to walk back that stretch and was no easy task. Further one had to cross over some other folks property. The skiing was heaven or near hell depending on how much the sun would affect the snow surface.
The first survey got done by a fellow that did some survaing work for Boise Cascade lumber out of Joseph Oregon. He must had a license to do that kind of work.
Yes Snowmaster you are right that is the Wallowa Lake Gondola, that for some reason is now called Wallowa Tram. I was General Manager there at the time when that accident happen. The accident fortunately did not cause any injury but could had bin very serious as one downhill cabin had just made it bye the tower that fell over due to a poor foundation that was sitting in shale rock. At the time the communication systems where still very poor and that area where the accident happen is very exposed to wind. I had the tower layout redesigned by then Hall Ski Lift Co, Watertown and the situatiion there is better now with a pedestal footing now and some excavation.
Correction Mountaineer, Squaw Valley used the original cabins until I sold the machinery to Big Sky! Many of those original cabins then damaged when the gondola machinery was removed at Squaw and moved to Big Sky. Big Sky then needed then additional cabins and bought them from Park City that where the Mueller CWA Cabins. Second issue, when I arrived at Wallowa Lake in June year 1970 it was immediate clear to me that tower location where not in locations where profile showed and from there on all the re engineering got done by Hall Ski Lift, Watertown, N,Y The new survey of the lift line got done by a licensed survey that was approved by H.S.C chief engineer Erwin Focht.
The CWA Cabins shown with John Kircher are from some other area again, as those cabins where in use on the First Mueller lifts ever built and must had originated from Canada somewhere.
So those cabins weren’t ever on the Squaw Valley gondola? I was told by a source that the cabins from Gondola 2 after it was removed from Big Sky were sold as the cabins from Squaw Valley. Those cabins could have come from anywhere, but I’m pretty sure they were on the Squaw Valley gondola at some point before it was removed.
Those Cabins shown with John Kircher most certainly never have there any bin at the Squaw Valley Gondola. If you have a copy or can obtain of the movie Hotdog you will see the only cabin model that was on that gondola to the end. The one in the Photo was designed by CWA and used by Mueller Canada’
Lift Blog 
The cabins are not well cared for as the floor underside support beams have much rusted away when I saw them years ago.
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The cabins are well cared for, the entire lift has gone through a complete overhaul in the last 8 years. New cabin floors and windows, Skytrac drive and controls, all sheave assemblies have been rebuilt, new LST sheave wheels, gearbox rebuilt, lift repainted, new com-line, new bull wheel bearings and counterweight rope are going in this fall, also the area was able to acquire all of the grip parts from Sterling Vineyards so the old girl is looking and running great!
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Ropeways; European law requires all systems in Europe built with this design to cease operations by 2025.
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What do you mean by “this design”?
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xtrwheels onCable wire rope gripping devise can only have wheels for coupling or uncoupling on the outside side. The Giovanola grip however has rollers on either side of the wire rope. This concept has caused in a number of wire rope derailment that the lift would not stop and the wire rope grip would continue running right over the sheave assembly without stopping. The gravity launch coupling and uncoupling as still in use at the Wallowa lake gondola has bin has bin ceased in Europe for at least 20 years. Reason, the coupling and uncoupling speed is dependent on the amount of weight in the cabin as grip and cabin roll down the slanted rails. Due to the uneven coupling and uncoupling process the wear and tear on internal grip parts is extreme. For this reason since the 1970 automatic coupling and uncoupling bin in use that while after coupling on wire rope the gripping force automatically checked.
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All Giovanola cable grip system design or other with rollers on both side of the wire rope carriage design, to cease operations by European law in 2025. These lifts where sold and manufactured by, Habegger, Von Roll, WSO Städeli, Hall and Skirail.
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There’s still quite a lot of them operating there though isn’t there? When was this made into law?
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Most certainly there will be some hardship. It would not be prudent to operate with that system in any other Country as otherwise it be we told you so.
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All of Europe or just Switzerland? Which gondolas with Giovanola grips were sold and manufactured by Von Roll and Skirail? Intamin, Pohlig, PHB and PWH are missing in your list.
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As I understand the law is for all of Europe and has bin in the making for years. Back in 1983 Lift Engineering installed a Habegger Gondola system to Squaw Valley and Keystone Colorado. Either of these 2 installation where removed after 2 years, the reason being that Habegger got bought out by Von Roll and Von Roll did not wanting to continue with a system that had a blemished history. In short, it was clear that the system be replaced with new technology.
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Seilritter37 – Your contributions to this thread have been incredibly interesting and invaluable. Thank you.
You’ve mentioned several times that the NW aspect of the gondola line was one of the challenges in this location becoming a proper ski resort. Did you ever ski the northerly or NE aspects of the mountain towards McCully Creek that presumably would not experience the same sun/aspect challenges? It appears as though that also would have removed the bottom 600-800′ of elevation below the moraine, potentially making those aspects skiable to the valley floor, or close there to. There are the same elevations/aspects that the current Ferguson Ridge ski resort operate in just a mile or three to the East.
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Yes, I skied off that mountain in every direction and have incredible fond memories for most outings. Certainly the mountain had much to offer. With the Wallowa Wilderness touching the area and the remote location a regular ski resort would not be feasible. My vision was for offering Winter sports weeks, With skiing, touring, cross country and activity at the base lodge. Either was the money there or the enthusiasm. In German, es wird nie ein guter Brei der zuviele würzen denn einer wird mit Geschrei auf den andern stürzen.
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Wallowa lake Tramway ( Gondola ) cabin history: These cabins where manufactured by CWA, Olten, Switzerland for a Mueller gondola installation in Glacier Park. That project failed during its installation do to financing issues. The cabins then where stored for years in a warehouse until Park City, Utah bought some of the cabins for it’s PHB gondola as replacement for the original PHB Cabins. However Park City decided to purchase new cabins from CWA and the cabins where once again up for sale. In the meantime I sold the old PHB gondola from Squaw Valley to Big Sky Resort in Montana. Big Ski then purchased some or all cabins from Park City. The now relocated Gondola with the from Park City purchased cabins operated from year 1985 to 1999 when the Gondola machinery was removed and replaced with a chairlift. Some of the now retired Gondola Cabins at Big Sky then where re-purchased by Wallowa Lake Tramway Corporation where they have bin in use to replace the Hall fiberglass cabins that where supplied with all the machinery equipment.
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Where is glacier park?
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Glacier Park is in Montana and Canada. The Mueller designed gondola was sold from there office in Canada. If the gondola was being installed on the Canada side of the Park or the Montana side I don’t know.
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Huh. I thought the cabins came from the Mt. Hays Mueller Gondola in Prince Rupert BC. The ski resort went bankrupt in the ’90s.
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It’s kinda funny, if you look at Mt. Hays on Google Maps satellite view, it still shows a dotted red line, signifying that a gondola operates there.
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The Cabins used at Wallowa Lake, Sugarbowl and a couple of installations in Mexico have in around since the late 1960this and where stored in Canada for many years. Some of the cabins went to Park City but never came in use until Ctec purchase some of the cabins from Park City for its upgrade of the Sugarbowl. igi1983 I sold on instruction from Hans Burkhard the Squaw Valley gondola to Big Sky Montana. Big Sky bought then additional cabins from Park City to increase the capacity. These cabins then found there way to Wallowa lake Gondola.
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Talking about the old Mt. Hays Gondola, I found this video that shows some of the old Mueller gondola towers for the lift. The towers can be seen at 2:22 (barely), and at 5:33, you get a good shot of a Mueller tower.
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I recently found a ton more old Mt. Hays Gondola photos.
Apparently, the ropeway was sold to Purden Ski Village near Prince George, but was never put up.
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Apparently the financing fell true and that at a time when actually the corporation was as far with the installation that the wire rope was to be spliced. At least that is what I bin told. As for some of these cabins being still in use or the cable grips is beyond my comprehension.
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Does anyone know why the Mt. Hays gondola wasn’t used for sightseeing after the skiing operation closed down? It’s closer to a town of decent size than Wallowa Lake is and Wallowa Lake is still operating.
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@SEILRITTER37 and @Utah Powder Skier, there’s an interesting article that was in the newspaper in 1991 about this.
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Is this gondola detachable? It looks like it, but it was made in ’68
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It is!
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Yes it is detachable! In itself it was a very unique piece of engineering considering it’s design dates back into the 50tis. The internal mechanism works sort like one would use a prier bar to move a heavy object. In this case the weight of cabin and grip with hanger, with or without passenger, is translated into a downward force that the internal mechanism multiplies in clamping force on the grip jaws to the cable. The first installations in use in Switzerland had only 2 people cabins and the grip had one hanger pipe only. The grip with cabin and passenger was launched with sort of a spring tensioned arm that the station operator would pull and in turn catapult the cabin on to the moving wire rope. At the time it was kind of on exhilarating thing to ride in.
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Skier 72. Thanks for posting the video from Mt. Hays and what remains from the near completed Mueller Gondola project. As I was told by CWA personal that about the time the wire rope got spliced the financial lenders offer fell true. At the time, the CWA cabins had just arrived in Canada and so then got stored near the Harbor in a storage space in the hope of a solution to the project that did not come about. In about year 1988 I sold and drove to Baine, Washington to pickup 4 of these cabins for Sugar Bowl. Those where the last cabins that entered still in new condition into this country. .
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It’s a shame this lift doesn’t run at all in the winter. Even the liftline would be a fun run.
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In my opinion the lift and upper station are really not designed for winter operations and would be outright dangerous if a lift evacuation would have to be done The machinery and equipment is old and outdated making operations even more of a challenge.
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I have a brochure from the ’70s when they briefly described themselves as a ski area.
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Yes, Skiing was much in consideration in the early years of operations. I took over the management and operation of the then called Wallowa Lake Gondola in 1971, since I was involved with the construction of the machinery that we built at Hall Ski Lift, Watertown, N,Y plant. We felt immediately that the mountain could offer more then just Summer operations. We got a remorse approval from the Forest Ranger, to operate a handle tow ski lift on the summit above the upper gondola station. The corporation also bought a used Poma lift from Anthony Lakes Ski Area out of Baker, Oregon and for that installation we needed an environmental review report. From there on, everything started to unravel in many different ways. First, myself, I realized that a full size ski resort was not affordable or feasible due to Wind and weather that would shut down the Gondola Operation. My plan was to create a Winter sports week with, Cross Country, Skiing, Snow survival training, Snow shoeing and so on. Unfortunately, to many clueless individuals got involved and an Environmental report was created that showed 4 or 5 Chairlifts, without having any funds to pay for. In short, I skied that mountain more then anybody, skiing was a dream come true on good days and was horrible on bad days. In addition one had to walk off from the top of the moraine back to the lower station and is no easy task, but is on area that hardly ever had snow to ski on. As for the Gondola now, well it has to be the most out dated equipment there is and to do anything on that mountain would require new machinery.
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I assume ski racks were never mounted on the cabins; but are you saying there WAS a season where customers skied the summit tow? When you say moraine, does that mean you descended the north aspects of Howard and had to cross the lateral moraine that holds the lake? If so, there must also be stories of someone skiing that steep, direct section of the liftline?
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The Gondola started to operate in late Summer of 1970 and was equipped with Hall Ski lift fiberglass cabins and those cabins had no ski racks. I had then a few racks fabricated and installed so we could get up in the Winter to do snow survey and transport up local ski enthusiasts on some days. As for the summit tow, it never materialized for various good and bad reasons. Yes the slope we skied most, faces mostly to the West and it is the evening sun that caused the great powder snow conditions to deteriorate. I did with friends, skied about any decent off the mountain. Of course the lift line was much narrower back then and snow was scared from tower 6 down. A mistakable trek to navigate it on foot. The cabins that are now in use where bought from Big Ski Montana by the present owners and where not designed for this installation.
In summery, that project was poorly planned from day one since it was financed by FHA that in reality never wanted to get involved with the financing on this project, but was sort of pressured by US Congressman to do so. This project would make a good story for a book, on how not to plan a privat project.
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Seilritter37 those cabins couldn’t have come from Big Sky. I’m pretty sure Big Sky’s original cabins were sigma’s wacky french cabins, then those were replaced with CWA cabins from Park City that ended up in a maintenance lot off of ME Rte 27 just north of the Sugarloaf access road; both of those cabins (the early Sigmas and the Park City CWAs) were totally different from the cabins on this lift. These cabins came from a Mueller gondola, though I’m not sure which one.
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One additional interesting part is, how come Park City never used these cabins on there PHB Gondolas at the time, after they where bought? The answer might be, that Park City personal overlooked the fact that the Gondolas where for right side uphill loading and these cabins from Mueller where for a left uphill installation intended. It would had bin a cumbersome task to have skiers walk around the door to enter the cabin with the much higher uphill capacity then the summer operation has at Wallowa Lake. Park City then bought new Cabins from CWA.
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Max, the Big sky gondola 2 had both these CWA cabins and the french cabins at the same time.
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Are you sure they put Poma ouef cabins on the PHB gondola?
Both gondolas:
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/cable-cars-at-big-sky-ski-resort-montana-picture-id200366352-001
Maybe they just used these cabins:
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/male-skier-sits-in-a-gondola-fort-at-big-sky-resort-in-big-sky-picture-id538588371
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Those two are the ones that the PHB gondola had. here are some photos of them both on the line https://photos.app.goo.gl/2QjaHwYrXH7dYYVF7
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Thank you for sharing the photos. Very interesting to see two different cabins on one line, but not the oeuf cabins on the PHB gondola.
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Yes I was mixed up about which cabins were the french ones. The french clam shell cabins were on gondola 1. Gondola 2 never had them.
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Does anyone know whom made this kind of cabin?
Seen at Whittier in 2022.
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Yes that is how we skied that area of the mountain! The lower part never had snow and so from the moraine down one had to walk. The area where we could ski on was from fantastic to bad as the afternoon sun was very intense on that slope. The original Hall Cabins had no ski racks. Yes I skied the lifeline down to about tower 7 and then angled off to the south as the rest of the lift line had not sufficient snow. We further skied the open hillside more to the south. On paper all looks good in reality it is a different story.
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Is it correct that “High Wallowas, Inc.” first sought for a permit to install a ski lift in 1973, but nothing really happened the following years? A spokesman of the company said in 1978 that skiing should only bring enough income to “maintain the gondola property”. And for the 79/80 season you started selling lift tickets for $12? But when did you stop offer skiing?
https://www.oregonlive.com/terryrichard/2010/01/high_wallowas_remember_skiing.html
I still don’t completely understand the story around the cabins. The gondola was first equipped with classic Skycruiser cabins (did they come from the same Salt Lake City based supplier that made them for the Park City gondola?) where you later installed a few racks (I do have a picture of a such a cabin). But what about Squaw and Big Sky? Did some of the PC cabins that went to Big Sky finally made it to Wallowa (like Rene Thoeni said) before all cabins were eventually replaced with CWA ones?
And last but not least, the other problematic PHB relocation, was that the one in Lutsen, MN?
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Moutaineer, On interesting book could be written about this Gondola, as from day one obstacles where a constant partner. During the design and fabrication face I was still working for Hall Ski Lift in Watertown New York, with the assistance from a leading Engineer from PHB out of Köln, Germany and a young Engineer that prior worked at Von Roll, Switzerland. But as I later learned is that when push comes to shove, the bosses will say, oh no we can do this simpler and cheaper and that was the case here and years later at Squaw Valley with the Lift Engineering Gondola where I was during the installation in charge of the mechanical installation with the Von Roll Engineers. Just a background! As for the original cabins they where fabricated by Hall Ski Lift Co. in Watertown NY consisting of a steel tubular tube frame and fiberglass Schell. There where no ski holders at the time. The gondola was originally designed for double the capacity. In year 1971 i took over as General Manager at Wallowa Lake! With the Gondola Cabin’s we found out that on busy days the lift line was to long, but in the meantime the Hall Ski lift cost doubled and so we bought 4 Cabins and Geovanola Hangers from CWA, Olten Switzerland! these very same cabins and color, like the ones Vale bought except our are 4 passengers. I had some ski racks fabricated as we started to work on an environmental study, and to try out the possibility of skiing the 3700 vertical feet slopes. These cabins where in use until the early 1990this. The new ownership of the Gondola then bought equipment and cabins from Big Big Sky, Montana that had removed the Gondola it had bought 10 or so years earlier the old PHB Gondola from Squaw Valley. However Big Sky bought additional cabins from Park City that in turn had bought those cabins from Mueller, Canada that had built a lift in Glacier Park, a Corporation that went bankrupt before it ever opened. To say the the equipment is old is an understatement. Last but not least, the original manufacturer PHB went bankrupt in 1985 and that makes the system a safety concern, as regular bulletins would be released by PHB in regards the the cable grips and other moving equipment. The corporation that manufactured the running sheaves stopped manufacturing them in 1985 A long story but that yes I was involved with the project from day one and am still alive to talk about.
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Seilritter37, thank you for the information.
So I try to summarize, please correct me if I’m wrong:
Squaw Valley: PHB Skycruiser cabins (made in SLC like the ones for Park City?) > gondola and Skycruiser? cabins sold to Big Sky in 1983 (two thirds of the cabins were scrapped according to an interview with John Kircher)
Treasure Mountain (Park City): PHB Skycruiser cabins (made in SLC) > at some point replaced with Skycruiser? cabins from Hall (according to chairlift.org/parkcity.html) > PC bought the CWA cabins from failed project in Glacier Park > completely new CWA cabins in 1982 while the “used” CWA cabins were sold to Big Sky in 1983 (according to Kircher, they bought 56 of them – the Hall Skycruiser cabins were scrapped?)
Big Sky: used Skycruiser or CWA cabins from both Squaw and PC (oddly an old picture shows Kircher with a completely different cabin in the background (the ones you would see on a GMD or Bell gondola), I try to share it here soon) > > gondola was removed in 1996 and CWA cabins were sold to Wallowas
Wallowas: Hall Skycruiser cabins > a few years later you added ski racks to a few cabins and bought four new CWA cabins with Giovanola hangers, that means you operated two different cabins at the same time? > Hall Skycruiser cabins replaced by CWA cabins from Big Sky in 1996
Maybe you can also shed some light on why Hall entered into an agreement with PHB in 1966, but did already build own gondolas in 1968 (I know about the involvement of the PHB engineer for the line profile, but most of the gondola is Hall)? Did that agreement just include some kind of knowledge transfer to enable Hall to build detachable lifts?
As for the bankruptcy, according to my knowledge that was in 1988. A company called O&K then bought the ropeway division (which was pretty small compared to PHB’s other divisions) and it became PWH a year later. Most of it was eventually sold to Doppelmayr in 1994. The only thing of PHB that survived is the cable crane division at thyssenkrupp.
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© Billings Gazette
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Dopplemayr FTW is wrong, there where never Poma Cabins on the PHB gondola, except that there might on attempt was tried to do so and if done so it would had bin a dangerous thing to do. The the cable grip is of total different design. I was put in charge at Squaw Valley by Hans Burkhardt the President of Squaw Valley at the time, to see for a buyer of the PHB Gondola and I made the original sales agreement with Big Sky. After the PHB Gondola was installed at Big Sky, Scott Bowmen then Mountain Manager, hired me to inspect the PHB Gondola installed. At that time there where where cabins that came with the equipment from Squaw Valley and Mueller cabins that John Kircher had bought from Park City.
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MOUNTAINEER, No CP Cabin made it back to Wallowa Lake and all the are CWA De Luxe models. In regards to Lutsen Mountain cabins, another bad replant from Loon Mountain, I am not certain right now if those cabins where Hall Cabins that where basically a copy of the PC cabins. I have a postcard mailer the shows the Loon Mountain Gondola with the typical 3 pod tower and the cabin shown appears to be a Hall fabrication. But somehow when I was at Lutsen Mountain those cabins did not look the same design. . Last I was asked how did Hall Ski Lift got to work with PHB, Mr Hall tried to work together with Habegger Thun Switzerland that was an early leader in gondola and ropeway technic and I personly visited mit Vic Hall the facilities in Thun, But Habegger was way to slow to provide information for possible projects and so Ed( Forgot his last name ) the person that had sold the Park City Installation, got in touch with Hall and arranged the the work asociation.
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I didn’t know about Habegger, that’s interesting.
Rene Thoeni wrote here (https://liftblog.com/gondola-lutsen-mountains-mn/) that the cabins for Loon / Lutsen were made by Hall. The only question is if they have been replaced or refurbished in 2002 (http://chairlift.org/lutsen.html)?
Lutsen
Park City first generation
PC second generation?
Sugerloaf
And one from Germany, the Taubensteinbahn in Bavaria (1971/72)
It looks like the windows on the PC cabins were more rectangular than rounded at the corners (at least the first generation).
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I am aware of the French built cabins, that where on the original Poma Gondola. However, additional cabins where needed for the old PHB Gondola from Squaw Valley that Big Sky had just bought and installed. Big Sky bought these cabins from Park City, Utah and we sold some of the Cabin attachments. Yes after Big Sky removed the PHB Gondola, the cabins then where parked at the B.S. maintenance yard, where I sah them there myself. Following some sheave trains and cabins then ended up in Wallowa where the cabins bin refurbished to its present look. If you look at above photos, you will notice that the door opening is in reverse since those cabins where made for a left hand uphill loading and Wallowa Gondola is right hand uphill loading.
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It is true the Mueller cabins had surface work over, but the steel tubular skeleton frame little can be done to and corrosion there is the main problem and should be of the main concern.
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But do you know when the Skycruiser cabins at Squaw got replaced with the ones that were sold to Big Sky? And who made those, CWA or maybe even Swoboda?
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Many of the Squaw cabins got damaged in transit and in year 1984-85 I sold to Big Sky the cross members that attach to the cabin where the cable grip hanger gets attached. By then Big Sky had the cabins from Park City on site and again those are CWA cabins just like the ones that are still here at Sugarbowl.
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I was told that the Mueller looking cabins replaced the original cabins at Squaw Valley when their gondola was still operating. I was also told that those cabins came from Switzerland (maybe Mueller or CWA?). They definitely operated at Squaw Valley.
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Max – Don’t forget that Big Sky had two gondola lines in the late ’80 to mid ’90s. The Gondola One had the L’Oeufs Francais/Clamshell-style cabins until it underwent a refit with a new base terminal/cabins (then cratered in an accident). Gondola Two had problems and ran intermittently until it was refit as a detach quad. Adding to the confusion: this thread has overlapping/intertwining timelines for the events concerning all of these cabins.
SEILRITTER37 – Love your stories, as I had relatives in the area and always had questions about the Mt Howard gondola. It IS a story on how not to plan a project, however it is also the classic American story of contribute to a congressman to get wheels greased and paperwork signed!
Was the liftline widened for safety? FS request?
Such a large area; did you scout your descents, or go by aerial photography, or just what you could see from the lift?
Did you aim for a return to the base or ski out other ridges/drainages toward the lake?
One reason I ask is because I can’t think of any other sightseeing lift in N.A. where only a few people have skied down (not possible at, say, Palm Springs or Albuquerque). Whereas in the Alps some of the classic descents were actually built for sightseeing.
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First in regards to Big Sky, yes in year 1983 we sold the Squaw Valley PHB to Big Sky! B.S had a local Engineering Firm doing the re-location design for installation, A problematic decision, as really only the original manufacturer can re-design a Gondola and its upgrade or there be problems in the future and that has proven to be so. I reviewed the lift after it was installed and had some concerns, with similar problems I found years later an another PHB installation. In regards to the Mueller lift cabins, I bought the last 4 never used cabins from Mueller Canada in 1988 and sold them to Sugar Bowl, in Norden, California. At that time the number 2 Gondola at Big Sky was still running. Yes the name Mt Howard Gondola was selected by the board of directors the year I started to manage the operation. The lift-line at the time true the forest was so narrow where the Forest Service hoped it could not bin seen from a distance. After I rode up one day, with the Forest Ranger a tree branch creeped into the cabin and scratched the Rangers face, that prompted the removal of a few more trees. But while I was there until 1978 the lift line stayed narrow and in fact reduced the wind affect, but was also a concern of fallen trees. As for skiing, I got to know the mountain sort of like the inside of my pants pockets, so the skiing was often more like lets try this or that this time and it was a lot of fun. One time there was a meeting at Valies dinner and since I was late skied right to there front porch and people to this date don’t belief this was possible, Another time a pilot in a Cessna reported that he sah some crazy people to the right of the Gondola and as far as he could see they where on skis. People that I skied with, where the Snow Rangers from Alta, Utah, Antony Lake ski patrollers and Spout Springs ski instructors to name a few. In short it saddens me that we could not succeed with the development plan of winter sports weeks, where we could offer any winter snow activity on a small scale, By doing so the many beautiful cabins nearby would had bin able to rent them summer like winter and the Gondola operation actually would had made some money.
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POSTMILAN You are absolutely right it is a classic American story, that I seen in my 60 year of ski and lift industry repeat itself dozens of times! Except up to the early 1980ties a handshake still had a meaning and that in most cases was a good thing. Victor Hall the founder of Hall Ski Lift would call up to Canada and say, here or there a person wants a ski lift and I am comming up. For me and my workers it was like Christmas knowing we would have another ski lift to build. But when the Wallowa Lake people called up to Hall things where slightly different, where wish was to build a gondola but in essence they had no money, but where in hope possibly to get an FHA loan. Except they needed drawings and a price quotation of such a project and if the deal came true Hall would get the job to build it. Hall ski lift agreed and requested a profile from the mountain, The Wallowa folks promptly hired a survey that would do the work cheap and Hall with profile on hand engineered with collaboration from PHB the gondola. With FHA still trying to come up with road blocks requested that I belief 60 % of the county population had to become stock holders, a situation were some of the 50 dollar investment stock holders felt they would have more to say then me as the General Manager. Since I am Swiss born and speak the German language I was sent to Wallowa from Watertown NY to finish mechanical details of the installation. When I got to the location, the first view was that on tower ! the cable was hanging up about 20 feet over the sheave assemblies and at that point I knew, oh boy there is a real problem here. A professional survey had to be taken and some of the towers where of by some 80 feet off in contrast to the false profile first provided and towers where also out of line. For this and other reason the lift got then only to operate about a year later as planed. In answer about skiing the the the mountain from top to bottom, we skied exactly how you described, except the area from the top of the moraine back to the lower Gondola terminal was almost always bear and we had to walk back that stretch and was no easy task. Further one had to cross over some other folks property. The skiing was heaven or near hell depending on how much the sun would affect the snow surface.
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Who did the first (false) profile, a local surveyor or the engineer from PHB?
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The first survey got done by a fellow that did some survaing work for Boise Cascade lumber out of Joseph Oregon. He must had a license to do that kind of work.
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And then construction began based on a false profile, it had to be stopped and an engineer from PHB did another (correct) profile?
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The CO School of Mining has a pic of an accident on an OR gondola… I assue it could only be this one. https://mountainscholar.org/bitstream/handle/11124/8025/R2221.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
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Yes Snowmaster you are right that is the Wallowa Lake Gondola, that for some reason is now called Wallowa Tram. I was General Manager there at the time when that accident happen. The accident fortunately did not cause any injury but could had bin very serious as one downhill cabin had just made it bye the tower that fell over due to a poor foundation that was sitting in shale rock. At the time the communication systems where still very poor and that area where the accident happen is very exposed to wind. I had the tower layout redesigned by then Hall Ski Lift Co, Watertown and the situatiion there is better now with a pedestal footing now and some excavation.
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Correction Mountaineer, Squaw Valley used the original cabins until I sold the machinery to Big Sky! Many of those original cabins then damaged when the gondola machinery was removed at Squaw and moved to Big Sky. Big Sky then needed then additional cabins and bought them from Park City that where the Mueller CWA Cabins. Second issue, when I arrived at Wallowa Lake in June year 1970 it was immediate clear to me that tower location where not in locations where profile showed and from there on all the re engineering got done by Hall Ski Lift, Watertown, N,Y The new survey of the lift line got done by a licensed survey that was approved by H.S.C chief engineer Erwin Focht.
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The CWA Cabins shown with John Kircher are from some other area again, as those cabins where in use on the First Mueller lifts ever built and must had originated from Canada somewhere.
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So those cabins weren’t ever on the Squaw Valley gondola? I was told by a source that the cabins from Gondola 2 after it was removed from Big Sky were sold as the cabins from Squaw Valley. Those cabins could have come from anywhere, but I’m pretty sure they were on the Squaw Valley gondola at some point before it was removed.
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None of those cabins ( CWA De Luxe ) where ever
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Oops, should have specified which cabins I was talking about. I was talking about the ones in the John Kircher pic.
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Those Cabins shown with John Kircher most certainly never have there any bin at the Squaw Valley Gondola. If you have a copy or can obtain of the movie Hotdog you will see the only cabin model that was on that gondola to the end. The one in the Photo was designed by CWA and used by Mueller Canada’
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What became of the original cabins after their replacement? What company supplied them to Hall?
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Sold to individuals most likely
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