This is an archived list of lifts built in the United States and Canada during the 2022 construction season.
Blue = Doppelmayr
Yellow = Leitner-Poma
Green = Skytrac
Red = MND
Purple = Partek
Orange = SkyTrans
Gray = Re-installations (used lifts)
White = To be announced
ATW = Aerial Tramway
CL = Chairlift
G = Gondola
SL = Surface lift
D = Detachable
F = Fixed grip
M = Monocable
P = Pulse
J = Jigback
Lift Blog 
Is Snowshoe Going To Build A New Lift?
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I wonder when powder monkey will be coming
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I think it’s going to stay the same Thiokol triple, but there may be a plan to bring back Hawthorne as an intermediate ski area with a 6 pack chairlift.
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A six pack may be overkill, unless they can cut more than the two trails that were originally there. In my opinion, I hope they put more investment in the Western territory, which already has a lift and is pretty underutilized.
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Maybe A Doppelmayr Fixed Grip Quad Instead
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Merrill Hill will be a fixed-grip triple or quad. There is a rumor of them moving either White Cap or Aurora over and then replacing one of those two respective lifts with a detachable quad, but I am not sure of its validity.
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Merrill Hill will be a fixed triple
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Curious on the West Mountain Express shown as a CLD at Sugarloaf. I see there is a CLD-6 for the West Mountain slated for 2021. Their plan shows a shortening of west mountain. I think I assumed they would just take the current lift and move the top terminal to midstation. Seems unlikely a detach would go there. Though more condos will be built on the skiers right of West Mountain this would be a high-speed lift serving one trail for ski-in-ski-out mostly.
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I meant to move the new lift from the 2021 list to 2022 after hearing Karl Strand on a podcast. Unlikely the current West Mountain lift will be replaced any time soon. It’s going to be awhile before we have clarity on many 2021 projects, let alone 2022.
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I’m not sure the last time this was updated, but right now this says it will be a 4-CLD from Loon Mountain which I can only assume will be the former Kancamagus Quad? But I thought they were going to use that to replace the Seven Brothers Triple at Loon?
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They have implied this, but never committed to it. There is no reason for them to do this when there is no pressure and reason to lose the flexibility. I would probably give it a 90% chance of happening.
Loon said mountain biking will move over to Kanc8 and Seven Brothers will be replaced by summer 2023 at the latest. I am not positive whether they have announced or only implied that the Seven Brothers replacement will be a detachable quad, but it will be. Elsewhere in the Boyne network: At Sugarloaf, their next three replacements will be West Mountain, Timberline, and Double Runner. West Mountain was announced as a six-pack, so maybe Kanc could replace one of the latter two? However, they are likely farther down the line than Seven Brothers, so the lift would be in storage for a bit. At Sunday River, the next two projects after Merrill Hill are Barker and Jordan Bowl replacements, both of which will be larger than a quad. I guess they could move Kanc out west somewhere, but that would surprise me. Kanc going over to Seven Brothers just makes too much sense.
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Loon has not explicitly said that the SB replacement will be a HSQ, but according to the Forest Service Schedule of Proposed Actions, linked here: https://www.fs.fed.us/sopa/components/reports/sopa-110922-2019-10.html , it will be. If nothing else, this is a pretty good indicator that Kanc will go here. It’s already at Loon, so it would make sense to keep it there. However, on their Instagram posts about Kanc 8 and the final day of operation of Kanc Quad (March 28, 2021), people have asked if Kanc will replace SB. Loon has responded by saying that there are multiple scenarios for Kanc’s future but the definitive answer is TBD.
I’m curious, though, if they’ll do with this what they did with the former Ramcharger at Big Sky when they relocated it to Shedhorn, and give it a UNI-G enclosure? Personally I wouldn’t mind if they kept the 90’s UNI “spacejet” enclosure as I always liked the way they looked.
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Both the Boyne CEO and the GM of Sugar Loaf, Karl Strand said that West mountain will be a signature lift. It does say it is slated for a CLD-6 on the map and, Loon GM Jay Scambio said that Kank quad will be moved to seven brothers. Karl also said the announcement will be the winter before construction which is I assume is 2022 summer. That same summer Barker and Jordan will be done which are both likely bubbled CLD-6s, the same as West mountain. Both from Dopylmayr and I assume they will get a great deal because buying three 6, 7, 8 million dollar lifts is a pretty big investment. Boyne CEO Stephen Kircher already said on the storm skiing podcast that he is not interested in buying more high speed quads. There is no way that they will move that lift over to Sugar Loaf.
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Aren’t they doing the anti sway technology Doppelmayr is developing on Jordan? That is what I heard.
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That would be correct. I also believe they have not decided between an 8 and 6 pack for Barker. Sunday river wants the 6 pack but Boyne is pushing for the eight pack.
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After reading this I just remembered Jay Scambio on the Storm Skiing podcast. It was recorded in February of last year, so before COVID shook things up, but he said as of then, **most likely,** Kanc will stay with Loon for Seven Brothers, but I don’t see any reason why that would have changed.
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I believe Sugarloaf wants to use an updated Bullwinkles for more conference and banquet events which would need at the very least a bubble if not a Chondola for that on rainy days…
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Why don’t they put in a 6/6 chondi similar to Sunday Rivers at but with a smaller capacity gondola. They wouldn’t even need to put bubbles on it.
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Do you think California Express and red dog will get done in 2022?
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It won’t happen until a summer after Squaw changes it’s name
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I actually think it would make a great project to do the same summer the name change is implemented (i.e., 2021). Especially if they decide to do away with the name “Alpine Meadows” and combine the resorts under one name and brand.
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Any news on barker at Sunday River?
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I heard it will be replaced by Summer 2024 at the absolute latest, more likely in 2022 or 2023.
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Sugarloaf will do west mountain next year which will probably be a bubble 6. Jordan at Sunday River will most likely be a bubble 6 as well. The Sunday River president said that Sunday River will do Barker and Jordan at the same time so, If Boyne is buying two or three of the same lifts from doppyelmayr they’ll probably get a great deal especially since they’ve formed a partnership in the last few years. With all that information I would think they will all be done next year.
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Any news on Pioneer Express at Winter park? That lift is really really old.
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1986 isn’t exactly “really really old.” Yes, it’s 35 years old, but there are quite a few lifts out there that old that still operate. Mad River Glen and Mt. Eyak operate lifts that are easily 35 years older than Pioneer.
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High speed quads seem to work themselves to death a lot faster than fixed grips, though. A good number of the high speed quads of the Pioneer Express’s age in Colorado have been replaced in the last ten years, generally with high speed six packs.
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Is there any more news on when Lift 6 at Loveland will be replaced? I saw that it was removed from the 2021 list.
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Caberfae Peaks in Michigan is working on something. While the rumored installation of a new lift to serve the “Backcountry” is years off, could the old Hall double “Bo Buck” lift be coming back? Last summer they built up the earth at the edge of “Smiling Irishman” into what looks like a top station for the small lift, the old station location being now underground. The base station is in shambles but note that the motor has been stored elsewhere and the stations from the recently removed “Club” lift are also stored somewhere and the Clubs chairs were stacked in the dirt next to Bo Buck’s old chairs. I’m guessing we will see foundations go in this summer?
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Looks like this lift base station will be just to the left of the Shelter lift, not the old Bo Buck site, as I had hoped. But it looks true to what I heard when the Club lift was taken out, it would be moved to parallel the Shelter lift. Shelter has 64 chairs (total), the North Peak lifts have 66 each, South Peak has 74. This lift will go past and above the Shelter top station to that site on Smiling Irishman quite a distance further, this may end up being the longest chair? This is just my best guess but the stakes and tree cutting just below Mountain Slayer tell the story.
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Looks like the Shelter lift will be removed, the new lift will take its place for the base station in the summer of ’22. This summer we will likely see more dirt moved and foundations. No word on what kind of lift will go in, I would love to see an express lift here but I’m guessing another Doppelmayr fixed-grip triple. No official information. BTW, I was wrong above, North Peak quad has 76 chairs but this chair will be longer. I have a YT channel of the same name and did a short video on this there.
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Doppelmayr fixed-grip Quad according to a report I saw, but that report said this summer, where next summer is the plan I heard, wondering if it might creep further. Hoped to see clearing and foundations go in this summer, no sign of that. They have been doing maintenance on the existing Hall lift, hanging reconditioned chairs
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The owner confirmed a triple fixed Doppelmyr targeted for delivery in March and installation in that summer, though he wasn’t definite. It will replace the Shelter lift but go to the top landing on the new East Peak, the edge of the uber widened Smiling Irishman. Great interview!
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It’s not a year off. Next year.
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I wonder when Snoqualmie will put in International Express
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I wonder if relocated Swift Current would be good for it. It may be too long though.
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Yeah, it’s too big for it.
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Hopefully never.
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Why?
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Many reasons, but to me three that stand out: 1, there isn’t a demonstrated need. Desire is one thing, but need is another. 2, it would be challenging to limit traffic up top. It’s not always crowded, but sometimes on either a deep day or especially a real nice Cinco de Mayo slush-bump fest with some pseudo-bum boozing and preening, you gotta watch out. Nothing wrong with replacing a chair my 73 year ol’ Pa helped build when he was 19, but the logistics of a detach lead me to think Crystal-style upgrade would be better. As many people have pointed out on this here blog/discussion joint, sometimes hanging more people on line with a slow, many-chaired double or triple is better than stashing them in huge lines at the bottom waiting for 1 of the 50 chairs, or in Chair 2’s case, at the 3 choke points up top–Edelweiss, Upper International, and Schlucht. Chair 2 is roughly the same length as Crystal’s 6; even a slow ride really ain’t that long. 3, while I don’t know if a detach would entice more beginners to skate over from Chair 1 or not, any deterrent is good. Chair 2 is likely a spicy experience if you aren’t lucky enough to have ridden it for the last many decades, the first time early in memory with one of the dudes who shot the footings.
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Would International Express go to the top of Edelweiss, or will it stop short of the ridge?
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If they even build it, it’ll have to go short of the top. That ridge is way too narrow and rugged for a lift.
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When did you put Pioneer to be replaced with a 6 pack?
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Click to access 115259_FSPLT3_5610650.pdf
There is another document that has it listed specifically as a six-pack, but I cannot find it at the moment.
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One of Lookout pass new lifts on eagle peak the main lift will be a quad likely from skytrac and I have heard rumors that they will reinstall the removed chair 1 for the second lift which will be the shorter one.
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Reinstalling the removed chair 1 might be kind of a struggle with no towers. The new quad reused the existing towers.
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Chair 1 isn’t that old to begin with. If they can afford a new Skytrac, they can afford towers for a used fixed grip. If they can’t get new towers that work, there’s always Superior Tramways.
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Is Superior Tramways an operating company? The last time they updated their website was 2014.
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I think Superior Tramways was bought by or merged into Aerial Engineering Inc. a couple of years ago.
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The good news about today’s announcement of Vail pursuing to have as many skiers as possible: They hinted that this would be coupled with an appropriate investment in lift and trail infrastructure to accommodate everyone. That means 2022 could be a big year after an already busy 2021, where 7 lifts were built.
There are plenty of options to choose from around the empire. Bergman at Keystone seems very likely, and perhaps it could be joined by Game Creek’s long-awaited upgrade in Colorado. Maybe Tahoe finally gets some love? Whistler and Park City, being so large, have a number of additions that would be welcome. Next season will also be the first with the Northeast Value Pass and no VT travel restrictions, so Mount Snow and Stowe may need some relief (Okemo getting more after two new lifts this summer is probably unlikely).
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Welp, I guess 2022 will be a big year at all of the places I mentioned (and then some).
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Parking and more quads at Stevens! A replacement for the Horstman T-bar, and expansion to the west on Whistler Mountain!
> Maybe Tahoe finally gets some love?
I know this is Lift Blog and not Lodge Blog, but what about replacing the temporary lodge at Timber Creek at Kirkwood with a permanent day lodge? The weird fiberglass FEMA shelter thing is now ~15 years old.
We can dream.
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Kirkwood is long overdue for some investment. They don’t need to do anything fancy but some reinvestment and/or strategic minor expansion would be fantastic. It’s really the only good option if you’re in the South Bay.
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Doesn’t seem to be any talk of any new lifts at any of the Tahoe Vail resorts in the near future. Kirkwood would probably be last on the list. After being involved with Kirkwood for 30+ years it does OK being tied in with the Vail group, but has never really made any money on it’s own.
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Creative solution for Stevens Pass parking problem that is likely too ambitious to ever happen:
Build a large parking area where there is much more flat land west of Stevens Pass around the exit on US-2 for the Old Cascade Highway, around where the western portal is for the Cascade Tunnel. In addition to there being plenty of relatively flat land, this location also has the benefit of being at ~2200 feet, so it receives significantly less snow than Stevens Pass and is easier to clear in high snow years (like this one). Then, construct a ~2.5-mile gondola to connect the base with the top of Brooks. While this would absolutely be expensive, this would have the great benefit of significantly reducing traffic over the pass itself. Also, they could even attempt to start a ski train from Everett or Seattle up to the tunnel portal like they do at Winter Park to further reduce traffic.
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This is too good of an idea for anyone with power/money/influence to actually carry out. If you were worried about avalanches or environmentalists along the Highway 2 / Tye River side, do it in two stages, the first parallel to the high tension power lines over the Tunnel Creek drainage to the base of Jupiter/Southern Cross on the back side, then a second up and over (chondola?) to the main base, supplementing or replacing Southern Cross / Double Diamond / Katz’s.
(And then recondition and move Southern Cross to Kirkwood as a Martin Point chair.)
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Oh, I meant Kehr’s Chair. The run nearish to there is Wild Katz.
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I mean with the big new California Express going in we might get some investment from Vail for competition. We all know that Heavenly is the biggest resort in the Lake Tahoe area but with this new gondola, Squaw/Alpine will beat it. Hopefully with this at the very least Northstar and Heavenly might get investment.
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Heavenly may currently have more acres, but there is a reason Palisades Tahoe has been able to hold its own against three other resorts for the past decade or so. It is simply the best mountain in the area. I am hoping the connection will spur some competitive response by Vail, but history has taught me otherwise. There are about a dozen or so projects I could list off the top of my head that would be extremely useful at Heavenly, Kirkwood, and Northstar, but I have mentioned a bunch of them before and there is no use in repeating myself.
The one thing that gives me hope is that incoming CEO Kirsten Lynch sits on the board of directors for Stitch Fix, which is based in San Francisco. Perhaps she will venture out to Tahoe after a board meeting one winter weekend and do an in-depth check-in on her three properties to assess their lift needs. After all, Okemo is the first east coast Vail resort to receive a major set of improvements and Rob Katz is from New Rochelle, NY…
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Considering that Red Dog is not getting a replacement this year I wonder if it will get replaced in 2022. I know that the California Express is getting built and the existing Red Dogs terminal getting relocated but I wonder if they are planning on doing it in a multi-stage project or holding off Red Dog replacement for later. It also would be nice if they replaced Granite Cheif. If they did replace Red Dog I really hope it gets re-used at Squaw Alpine, I think it would fit well as a replacement for Alpine Bowl with the return up higher on the summit, plus the Poma terminal is compact and would be perfect for that situation.
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Another good idea could be to split Red Dog into two parts one to replace Alpine Bowl and the other to replace Meadows and Subway as listed in their master plan. It would be super interesting to see it used as a new High Rollers lift but it seems Alterra has all but scrapped that idea.
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Looks as though Green Ridge at Okemo will be relocated to one of Vail’s PA resorts, so either Liberty, Roundtop, Whitetail, Jack Frost, or Big Boulder. I figure it will happen in 2022, as it is not included in Vail’s 2021 capital improvement plan. Honestly, all five of those resorts are in pretty decent shape lift-wise. Maybe consolidate Merry Widow I & II into a single triple at Big Boulder? I would say to do the same with either E I & II or D I & II at Jack Frost, but those doubles are much younger.
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One of the captions for Liberty’s terrain park J bar says that they were planning on replacing it with a triple, perhaps this is it?
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I think it was set to be one of the CTEC triples from Ascutney. That plan was all pre-Vail. We know when Vail comes in a lot goes out the window. I doubt we’ll ever see the Crested Butte expansion proceed as Triple Peaks envisioned either. Or the Sunapee lift shuffle.
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Peter, West mountain at sugarloaf will be Dopylmayr lift. Boyne hasn’t worked with LP in years.
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But we don’t know if it will be new or used.
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The only lift that may be moved is Swift from Big Sky but Sugarloaf all ready said that this will be their flag ship lift like the Chondi at Sunday River, Kank8 at Loon and, Ramcharger at Big sky. It is safe to assume it will be a new CLD-6 bubbled from Dopylmayr.
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For the Steamboat Gondola will the second section be built the year after? If so will we see the stations interconnected so you can ride from the bottom of the first stage all the way to the top of the second or will we see a setup like Revelstoke’s gondola where you have to get off and then get back on?
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I have no concrete numbers to back this, but it seems as though there have been a high number of 2022 lift announcements at this point in time compared to previous years. Perhaps it is the pandemic shifting projects back?
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Anyone have any information on International Express at Alpental?
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I have heard rumors that Boyne is installing Barker and Jordan Bowl 6 packs at Sunday River the same year. Either will happen next year, 2023, 2024
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Jordan will be a Bubble D lined 6 pack with the anti sway/wind technology. I still think Barker is still under consideration between a 6 and 8 pack. Maybe Doppelmayr will put the first red bubbles on this lift.
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Why aren’t more resorts building D-Line 6 packs? I can see because of price but the Uni-G has been phased out in Europe and has been in North America for a long time now. I think it’s time for some new lift tech in North America.
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There is still demand for UNI-G stations as a quad chair in North America. Hence they are still available. As mentioned, the price gap is a big issue in NA, it’s less of a problem in Europe. Not sure how long this availability will last.
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I’m usually a little combative on this here blog thingie, but for this I’m just genuinely curious: why is it time for new lift tech as opposed to just new and/or used lifts that serve their purpose? I just rode ’96, ’99, ‘011, and ‘019 installation Doppelmayr detaches today and I gotta say I was just happy to be skiing. No complaints about even one of them. I will admit that the seats on the ‘019 were the best of the four, but that’s not surprising given the relative newness. And for actual comfort, my favourite carriers are Christmas at SV, an ’88/’95 DoppelYan.
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D-Line 6 packs are probably not being more widely built because of price and wanting to keep consistency with other lifts.
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What happened to Loveland replacing lift 6? I haven’t heard anything about it for a while.
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I am curious as well. Related, is Loveland going to implement the new parking lot and additional trails off of chair this year? https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=58009
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If it is true that Alterra is pushing Squaw Alpine gondola to next year, it’s going to be a big year for alterra with new lifts going in. That means if we get all of the 2021 lift projects and the 2022 ones that are so far slated we will get Squaw Alpine Gondola, Red Dog 6 person Express, Pioneer 6 person Express, Wild Blue 1st stage, and I will not be surprised if they build the new learning center the year the first stage of wild blue goes in so that means an additional 2 fixed grip lifts plus a new Bashor lift too bring the total to 3 fixed grip lifts. If you connect all the pieces together it looks like the fixed grips for the learning center will be split between Doppelmayr and Skytrac. So in total for 2022, 2 new gondolas that will be or eventually become multi stage, 2 new 6 packs, and 3 new fixed grips lifts. That comes out to 7 new lifts. Super!
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So it is true that Wild Blue is getting both Stages next summer. Way to go Alterra on forgetting about upgrading Sundown capacity and Morningside capacity. They will both get absolutely slammed now.
Also, will restaurant still be built at top of Sundown?
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Last I heard, Wild Blue was going to be a two year project. But again, Peter always knows well before any project is announced. Why did they remove the Sundown upgrade from the timeline? It was in their master plan. Maybe they’re waiting to see if there’s going to be any change at Sundown with a second gondola directly feeding it?
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It got approved along with Wild Blue stage II. I think you are right about what you said on them waiting to upgrade Sundown to see traffic patterns. I’m pretty sure we are getting Wild Blue concept art and renderings sometime in July with the official announcement for Wild Blue being then.
Sundown already has the longest lines on the mountain along with Morningside so I hope for both of those lifts to be replaced sometime in future. Morningside is not on master plan though which surprises me. Maybe they are trying to get an SUP boundary extension so they can lengthen Morningside before any announcement happens.
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Building Wild Blue I and not II would result in Thunderhead being an absolute mess. While Sundown and Morningside can get bad, Thunderhead is worse on a more consistent basis. Think of it this way: Wild Blue I sends everyone to Thunderhead and Bashor, while Wild Blue I & II has the same number of people but disperses them over Sundown, Storm Peak, Morningside, and Sunshine as well. They cannot upgrade everything at once, and I am sure Sundown will eventually be upgraded.
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Now since Wild Blue is a 10 person gondola, that means a higher chance of it being D-Line.
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When did you hear that Ray’s is going to Lookout Pass? Also, what happened to the double lift that was also going to be built.
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CHS Snowmakers said that Ray’s was sold, but they didn’t specify where it went.
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When is the new lift at Breck going to come (the peak 7 one)?
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Look on the 2021 new lift page. It’s going up right now for this season opening.
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Oh okay, I saw it in the map. I didn’t see it on the Google Sheets though.
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I hope pioneer chairs relocate to another lift
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Based on that picture looks like they will be going for both stages at once.
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I don’t see how bigger gondolas make sense in light of COVID.
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Sunday River has marked tower locations for the Jordan Bowl replacement lift, which leads me to believe it is a 2022 project. The plan is to reuse the existing lift elsewhere (with re-installation occurring a year after its removal), although I am not sure if that will necessarily be at Sunday River. White Cap and Aurora are the two candidates at Sunday River, while West Mountain at Sugarloaf is probably the most realistic option elsewhere.
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Do you have any info on Barker replacement? It should be higher priority than Jordan Bowl.
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Gm of Sunday River said they will be done at the same time.
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Well, this list more than doubled overnight haha. Great to see something like this happening, and soon too. Vail could’ve easily said that their 19 lift upgrades would happen over multiple years but they’re going all in and completing them in an entire summer.
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Makes me wonder if the lift companies can gear up for such a sudden demand. Nothing on the list for Michigan. It would be my fantasy to see a big player like that buy-up Michigan’s Sugar Loaf or one of the other closed resorts.
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There is a triple at Caberfae peaks on this 2022 lifts list. Not Vail owned though.
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Well, reading this a week later and a lot has changed, with Disciples 8 at Boyne and the new 6 at Bittersweet. looks like we’re finally getting something actually interesting happening in the Midwest again!
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I expect Timberline to either build its proposed gondola or Summit chair replacement in 2022 or 2023. I was leaning towards 2023 for the gondola, but their eagerness to merge the ski areas together from an operations perspective makes me optimistic about 2022. Plus, they have already started publicizing the plan.
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They will probably go Doppelmayr on the replacements assuming their recent history. I wonder if the gondola will be a D-Line, it is a 10 person gondola so it makes sense.
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It’ll take at least 5-10 years for the forest service to approve their plan and deal with the inevitable litigation from environmental groups. They went public with their bike park ~8 years before they finally built it for the same reason.
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with the East Peak expansion at Caberfae and the announcement of Disciples 8 at Boyne (yes, an 8 seat detachable, the third in North America, at a 500′ hill in Michigan), looks like things might finally be happening in Michigan/the Midwest. as a lift nerd I love all the old lifts, but as a skier I want something with an actual seat cusion and not 50 years old
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Yes. Sitting on a hard chair for 6 minutes is real bad for the psyche. So is all this old stuff. We’re definitely too good for old stuff. We need all new everything. I’m rooting for a return to Timberline’s bus tram, only for like three people at a time with in-flight beverage service and a bidet with attendant. I want lodges that make DV and SV and SB look like the Used Grocery Store in Enumclaw. Also, I don’t think I should have to remove my own skis. There should be a pool boy for that. As a binding nerd, I like the idea of bindings, but as a skier, dealing with them is just too much work.
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Well that was unnecissarily aggressive. I was just saying it’s nice to finally get some change that actually affects me, instead of just watching as another Colorado resort puts in an expansion or high tech lift.
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Funny what people perceive as aggressive. Also what some folks perceive as good. New lifts and new expansions are not automatically good, and in fact, since we do not all live in a bubble, most expansion is bad. Skiing is best when the bar for entry is the desire to learn, not the ability to pay. As the sport advances, we are aiming for the latter at the expense of the former, and narrowing the field of possible participants with every new bubble and gondola and D-line and so on. If that feels aggressive, I can’t help you. I’m merely sitting at my breakfast table before another 10 hour workday. No fists, no guns, certainly no anger at all, just stating my opinion.
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Sugarloaf, in their annual meeting video, indicated that CVA will be funding a new T-Bar for Comp Hill.
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Does anyone know if they’re doing anything with the old swift current from big sky?
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I heard the two delayed Mammoth lifts are likely for 2022, with Doppelmayr apparently already on board. This would make 2022 a big year for Alterra.
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Probably to compete with Vail. That means that so far next year for Alterra would be.
Confirmed Lifts for 2022
– Wild Blue Stage 1 {10 person gondola} @ Steamboat (Doppelmayr)
– B2B {8 person gondola} @ Palisades Tahoe [Finishing up from this year] (Leitner Poma)
Possible Lifts for 2022
– Canyon Express {6 pack} @ Mammoth (Doppelmayr)
– Broadway Express {6 pack} @ Mammoth (Doppelmayr)
– Timber Express {4 pack} @ Tremblant (Idk who will make it)
– Pioneer Express {6 pack} @ Winter Park (Leitner Poma)
-Red Dog Express {6 pack} @ Palisades Tahoe (Leitner Poma)
There could be up to 6 (7 if you count B2B at Squaw) new lifts this year for Alterra. I think that would be a worthy match for Vail.
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I think Red Dog is confirmed at this point. I also believe Timber will be manufactured by Doppermayr.
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Almost certainly Doppelmayr CLD-4! Their North American manufacturing facility is located only 50 minutes away in St. Jerome and to my knowledge no LPA lift has been built in QC in the last decade. That said, the resort hasn’t announced anything yet because of the COVID situation. Hoping it happens.
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The proposed Whiteface lifts are such head-scratchers. I cannot really say I am surprised given ORDA’s operational history, but it is still frustrating to see a great mountain have lifts thrown in almost at random and gloss over easy fixes that would vastly improve the experience.
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What does the orderbook in Europe look like for 2022? I’m just a little curious since there were a lot more Covid restrictions, especially in France, and the North American market seems to be slightly crazy.
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I don’t have hard numbers, but in Austria lift construction in 2021 was way down. Ski resorts here often announce their plans rather short term, but I suspect 2022 could be another slow year.
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When was Gray Butte at Shasta confirmed? Just the other day you mentioned that they declined comment. If it’s true, here’s hoping for copious cool southerly upslope for them.
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Will Palisades Tahoe be able to finish the gondola by the end of this year? They said it would debut for the 21-22 season, but when I looked at their webcam and they seem the be wayyyy behind on construction.
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The gondola will not be done. They got a late start in the spring and had to deal with complications from the wildfires.
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When will it be done? 22-23 season?
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Yes. Red Dog is also slated to be replaced this upcoming offseason with a detachable six-pack in a slightly different alignment to avoid the gondola’s bottom terminal.
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In the master plan for waterville I noticed that sunnyside is going to be replaced with a HSQ, is said HSQ going to be the former White Peaks?
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The new Sunnyside will be a fixed grip quad according to the plan. White Peaks is too old to reuse anywhere.
https://liftblog.com/2020/02/07/waterville-valley-eyes-terrain-expansion-and-a-gondola/
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I think the Jack Frost/Big Boulder lifts will be built by Skytrac, not LPA. The reason is that LPA seems to be having Skytrac build all of their fixed-grip orders while they focus on detachables and gondolas, which allows them to build more lifts overall and be more efficient.
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I have been assured the lack of Alphas this year was a one off. Grand Junction will produce multiple Alphas next year.
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That is interesting to hear. There are only seven fixed-grips on the sheet that are not yet assigned to a manufacturer. Assuming Partek gets their normal 1, that leaves 6 to be split between Doppelmayr and LPA/Skytrac. If they split evenly 3/3, that would give LPA/Skytrac 3 yet to be announced, 5 at JF/BB, and 1 announced Skytrac at Bryce Resort for a total of 9. Skytrac built 8 lifts last year, do they not have the capability to just build 9 this year? I feel as though that would be more efficient.
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It may be more efficient but that’s not the way the Skytrac/LPOA setup works. While LPOA technically owns Skytrac, they also still operate as separate companies (Vons can explain further as he works for Skytrac). A ski area still has the option to buy a Monarch terminal (and Skytrac lift) or an Alpha terminal (and Poma lift). This is the same way that Leitner and Poma operate in Europe. For example, we have long experience with Poma, dating back to 1981, so we chose to go with them for chair 5 a couple of years ago even though we bought a Skytrac terminal for chair 4 that same summer.
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Not being a sales guy so take it with a grain of salt but LPOA sales has been increasingly the lead for a lot of the Skytrac lift proposals though a number of resorts still go directly through us. The makeup of a contract ie Alphas or Monarchs is determined by the resort’s preference, budget or supplier production load. I also think that if the resort is looking to upgrade a fixed quad to a detachable quad later on they will most likely go with an Alpha as it will be a less costly to upgrade. My understanding is Skytrac will be building more lifts next summer than they did this last season, the final count is tbd, but I’d guess 12 would be the limit.
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Where did you get the information for Meadows replacing MHX with an LPA HSS?
I haven’t seen anything from Meadows themselves.
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https://www.fs.usda.gov/project/?project=60090
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The USFS’s SOPA (schedule of proposed action) website also lists this project with an expected implementation date of 6/2022, most recently updated in January 2022.
https://www.fs.fed.us/sopa/components/reports/sopa-110606-2022-01.html
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I don’t see the Argo gondola in Idaho springs on this list, is that no longer happening? It would be strange for them to stop the project as a lift line and base area have already been cleared. It seems like it will be a detachable 8 passenger gondola built by Lietner Poma similar to the gondola in Glenwood Springs. It also looks like it will run at 600 fpm, based on the ride time an length proposed on this website: https://visitclearcreek.com/activities/scenic-gondola/
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Was not expecting Leitner Poma for the Park City order, as Utah has historically been a Doppelmayr stronghold. This would be LPOA’s first 8 passenger chairlift in North America. Also, I was expecting Eagle to use Silverlode’s current equipment, like how King Con and Motherlode were done.
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The recent Colorado Sun article Peter features in very heavily implies LP won that contract. I’m as surprised as you.
I’m wondering if the alignment on Eagle may be a fair bit different than the current one. Even just getting to Gotcha Cut off is a big improvement, but if it went all the way to the top of King Con, it would allow direct access to Silverlode, which is a big deal. No clue what the land rights in the area look like since that’s often a mess at PCMR, so I’m not sure how possible it would be. Fun to think about though.
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We have Treeline Cirque as a quad preview for what Eagle’s midstation might look like.
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Extending Eagle up to the top of King Con would make it a two seat ride (when used in tandem with Silverlode) to the Summit House, and thus a two seat ride from the lower parking lots to every lift on the Park City side save for Jupiter.
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Shocked as well! Somewhere up above I tossed around the idea (semi-jokingly, guess not anymore) that historically Doppelmayr resorts might get LPA lifts this year.
We’re seeing a bit of a market shift, it looks like. These last 2 years or so, Utah has gone LPA more often than Doppelmayr – they’re lagging behind in that market and will need to make some changes to hold on at least somewhat to that market. On the contrary, the NE (historically a POMA/LPA-dominated market) is increasingly turning towards Doppelmayr.
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Seeing that LPOA got the 8 pack order for Silverlode what would it look like? A LPOA six pack with wider terminals and 8 place chairs or something different all together? Like the European chairs and glass terminal designs?
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Not speaking specifically about Park City (the lift manufacturers are under NDAs and can’t say anything) but I have been told in the past an LPOA 8 pack would use American-designed and manufactured LPA terminals with Leitner chairs from Europe. Same general concept as all Leitner-Poma detachables in recent years. They are not bringing over whole lifts from Austria like Doppelmayr.
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For the chairs, picture this, but without bubbles and two seats wider.
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Of the five remaining unannounced Vail detachables, my guess is that LPA gets Keystone & Breck, Doppelmayr gets Heavenly & Northstar, and Stowe is a toss-up.
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That would be logical, have LPA do all of the Colorado lifts. And it makes sense since Breck hasn’t built anything not by Poma or Leitner-Poma since 1985, and the only Doppelmayr that Keystone’s built since 1998 was the River Run Gondola.
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I’d say they’re all toss-ups. Just because an area has a history with a manufacturer doesn’t mean that manufacturer has a lock.
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Well now the sheet has Leitner-Poma doing all of the Vail Resorts projects in Colorado (Bergman Express, Ripperoo SuperChair, Sundown Express, Game Creek Express) for 2022. Not sure whether this is confirmed or those listings just have the LPA name filled in and will be updated if things changed, though it seems like LPA would be the likeliest manufacturer for these projects since these resorts have with three exceptions almost exclusively constructed LPA detachables for the last two decades.
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Perhaps. Maybe we’re weird, but since ’86 we’ve built two Pomas, then one Doppelmayr, then two more Pomas, then four Doppelmayrs, then three Pomas. Based on that the next lift will be a Doppelmayr. Or it may be an LP if their bid looks better.
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What happened to the Red Dog replacement at P Tahoe? I thought it was previously listed here as a 2022 install of a LPA 6 detachable. Something needs to happen to accommodate the gondola bottom terminal. They could go back to the plan of moving the Red Dog base slightly uphill, but I thought they ran into permitting issues with that plan.
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I have been unable to confirm that project’s status so removed it for now. Same story with Purgatory, Copper and Winter Park.
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