Peter, there are a few items in the list above that need adjustment:
1. Chair 4 is the 1997 Riblet new installation based on historical trail maps. It has almost an identical installed length and similar vertical rise to Chair 5.
2. Chair 5 is what appears to be a new Riblet installation, but it is not listed in the SAM Lift Installation Survey, so it may be a relocation or was not reported. It was installed around 1995 (it was labeled as “new” on the 1995 trail map while Chair 4 was still a double).
3. The stats you have listed for Chair 4 from 1987 belong to Chair 8. I don’t yet have a copy of the actual 1987 SAM Lift Installation Survey (only re-typed data from another source), but my source showed this installation erroneously as a double instead of a quad. The stats are perfect for Chair 8 per online tools, and it matches up with the 1988 trail map.
4. Chair 9 is likely a relocation, as the trails were not cut by 1973 per overhead photos, but it was in place by 1980. I put additional comments on the Chair 9 page.
After reviewing an accurate county topo map, my comments below are confirmed. Follow-up comments:
Chair 2/3 – Estimated vertical and length for the lengthened lifts are about 210-215 ft vertical and about 1255 ft inclined length.
Chair 4 – Matches perfectly for vertical and length with topo map and length calc tools with 1997 SAM stats.
Chair 5 – The data from the Alpine Valley WISCONSIN installation for 1995 matches the calculated stats at Alpine Valley MICHIGAN. This was pointed out on the separate Chair 5 page. This is definitely the 1995 installation.
Chair 8 – Matches perfectly for vertical and length with topo map and length calc tools with 1987 SAM vertical/length stats.
Chair 9 – Calculated stats using the same tools are about 65 ft vertical and 555 ft inclined length.
Chair 10 – While currently out of service, this is a lot closer to the SAM stats from the 1971 or 1972 installation as you have indicated above. Were these entries the same lift published twice? There is really nowhere else on the mountain where those stats would make sense at all.
Further research on Chair 9 indicates the lift was indeed licensed by Michigan in 1972, so likely was an original installation and not a relocation. Sorry, I guess my memory failed me on this one.
Without pulling the actual public records or consulting Alpine Valley itself, I cannot confirm much else. The SAM stats from my source clearly appear to be a copy/paste error from the 1971 installation (Chair 10). I stand behind my numbers from the previous post as being a good estimate (65 vert/555 length).
I’m sad to see the beginner terrain pod completely wiped off the 2022 trail map, indicating it’s closed for now. While it’s not very compelling terrain for intermediates and certainly not for experts, it seemed like a unique setup that could be used for beginners and ski school to keep them isolated from better and more intimidating skiers. I can only guess that the snowmaking infrastructure is dated, and with old lift stock (1972 Hall center-pole double and very old rope tows, along with a removed 1971 Hall center-pole double) and part of it being southern or southeastern exposure, it isn’t worth it to keep it open. Also, it was hard to get to, considering you had to use a rope tow and skate over the top of a little ridge. Getting back to the main area was just as difficult.
While not being overly challenging when comparing to “up north” areas in Michigan, even with fairly easy intermediate terrain, Alpine Valley doesn’t have any easy beginner terrain anymore outside of the learning hill and the short slope across from it with the rope tow. I wonder if they would consider bringing the pod back if they invest in the infrastructure and have a business idea of how to use it (e.g. dedicated ski school, beginner terrain park, etc.). Unfortunately, there are probably more pressing investments needed regarding the main slope lifts. I actually enjoy riding the Halls, but they are over 50 years old now.
The reality was that prior to the acquisition by Wisconsin Resorts, Alpine Valley has been in a state of decay for years. The prior ownership never reinvested much into the ski area over the past two decades. They put a few “newer” Riblets on the hill in the 80s, and then the last new modern lift was the Riblet triple in the 90s.
The rest was the fleet of original and aging Halls.
They never invested in their snowmaking system and had anywhere near the capacity/capability that Mt. Holly or Pine Knob did. Mt. Brighton was in similiar shape until Vail Resorts bought it and made investments in the area.
For the past decade, Alpine was well behind the other 3 downstate areas in terms of snowmaking and infrastructure. With the notorious freeze-thaw cycles, in some years they really struggled to get much of their main terrain open.
Not surprised to see them idle the Chair 9/10 area for the time being. At least the new owners have installed a lot of new snowmaking infrastructure this season.
I haven’t skied there in the past 3-4 years (pre-pandemic) but I’ll have to check it out this year.
I think Chair 2 & 3 are coming due for replacement very soon, as I noticed they have some survey stakes on the hill marking an alignment right between the existing two chairs. I assume replacement will just be a single fixed grip chair, and wouldn’t be totally shocked if its a used / repurposed lift from somewhere else.
Chair 6 was removed over the summer and out in the back of the parking lot.
I am pretty sure that Chair 7 never spun this season.
Chair 8 (the center pole quad) seems super rickety.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see 7 & 8 replaced in the near future with a single fixed grip lift.
Chair 9 and Chair 10 terrain has been abandoned like mentioned up-thread, but the lifts still remain on the hill.
It will be interesting to see what happens where 2/3 are. Wisconsin Resorts often repurposes lifts, and with a new detachable going in at Mount Holly, Chair 6 (1975 Hall fixed-grip triple) is coming out, but I think replacing 1968 Halls with a 1975 Hall workhorse is not a good investment. I do wonder if they will leave Chair 7 in at Holly, since it usually only runs on busy weekend days or holidays. A 1985 Riblet with less miles on it might work here, but it has a shorter line than AV Chairs 2 and 3. The Green chair at Nubs Nob is coming out this year, so that late-model Riblet quad could be an option and make AV pretty much a Riblet mountain if Chair 7 doesn’t spin.
Regarding Chairs 7/8, since they have different off-load peaks, one chair really doesn’t replace both. The area’s peak has very little real estate, so it can only handle one lift without building it up with more fill. Since Chair 7 doesn’t run much and I’m not sure they need the extra uphill capacity, it could probably just be removed without replacement. I don’t love Chair 8 (those center-pole Riblet carriers are just not user-friendly compared to their bail carriers or even today’s SkyTrac designs), but I wouldn’t be surprised if it sticks around for longer.
I have a feeling some major changes are in store for Alpine Valley over the next few years since the ownership change and now that Wisconsin Resorts has been able to develop a plan to redevelop and replace all the aging infrastructure at a neglected Alpine Valley. The most urgent priority was snowmaking and they have made noticable improvements in such over the past years. It was evident this year with the challenging freeze-thaw cycles we experienced in SE Michigan. With Jan & Feb being warmer than most of March in all.
Like said, I’m pretty sure that 2 & 3 are going to be replaced with a single fixed-grip.
7&8 will also be replaced with a single fixed-grip and likely some slope recontouring.
FWIW, the Nubs green lift is not going anywhere else. Its going to primarily be a parts donor of sheaves, clips, a few carriers for the remainder of their Riblet fleet. They are selling off the balance of their chairs. I only say that they may repurpose parts of a lift from somewhere else even if just towers and carriers but in this era the days of straight-up repurposing plug-and-play style of aging Riblets and Halls are pretty much over.
It appears on the 2023 New Lifts page now that Chair 2 is getting replaced with a new Skytrac triple for next season.
Funny I never remember ever seeing or hearing an announcement about this, but I knew something was up when I saw survey markers back on the hill in March when they were still open.
I know about a majority of the lift upgrades that happen throughout the country. I live 15 minutes from here and had no idea they built a new lift until I pulled into the parking lot last weekend.
I learned to ski at Pine Knob and further at Mt Holly, but no longer live in the area. I last went skiing at both Alpine Valley and Mt Brighton over a decade ago, before moving out of SE Michigan. Pretty sure that the coney island near the entrance on M-59 had better food than their cafeteria then. That said, AV is not a bad hill and it’s good to see Wisc Resorts put in the new improvements rather than AV going out of business. This is more work than what Vail had to do at Mt Brighton, I think.
Chair 1 was on the hill when I skied there for the first time in the 1990s, but not operating on those days. Does anyone have photos of it? I never ventured back to the now-lost Chair 9 and 10 pod. Not sure why Chair 7 is still officially in service, as it was just as rickety as Chair 6. Unless things have changed, Chair 8’s drive is still semi modern and I would just swap out the carriers. My guess is that both Chairs 7 and 8 will also be replaced by SkyTrac sometime.
If I was, I dunno, a bat, I would make the drive terminal enclosure of chair 5 as my top secret lair, if only for the summer season. I remember the drive terminals of Chairs 4 and 5 being pretty noisy under the enclosures. Otherwise, standard later Riblet triples. I like the bumped-out sidebars of late Riblet triple carriers more than I like most people. The chairs are just comfortable. Sure, the new Doppelmayr triples up at Caberfae are smooth, but the late Riblets just feel right as a rider. I must be an old timer. My memory managed to forget that Nubs’ orange lift and the two long triples at Pine Knob used to have straight sidebars, like all the really old 1960s triples ripped out of the south side of The Highlands this summer.
With Lift 6 at Mt Holly going HSQ, there’s probably zero point in having Lifts 5 and 7 still on the back of the hill. That’s fine, as Mt Holiday could use some late 1980s Riblet triple bent sidebar goodnews. Cmon guys, donate them.
Lift Blog 
Peter, there are a few items in the list above that need adjustment:
1. Chair 4 is the 1997 Riblet new installation based on historical trail maps. It has almost an identical installed length and similar vertical rise to Chair 5.
2. Chair 5 is what appears to be a new Riblet installation, but it is not listed in the SAM Lift Installation Survey, so it may be a relocation or was not reported. It was installed around 1995 (it was labeled as “new” on the 1995 trail map while Chair 4 was still a double).
3. The stats you have listed for Chair 4 from 1987 belong to Chair 8. I don’t yet have a copy of the actual 1987 SAM Lift Installation Survey (only re-typed data from another source), but my source showed this installation erroneously as a double instead of a quad. The stats are perfect for Chair 8 per online tools, and it matches up with the 1988 trail map.
4. Chair 9 is likely a relocation, as the trails were not cut by 1973 per overhead photos, but it was in place by 1980. I put additional comments on the Chair 9 page.
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After reviewing an accurate county topo map, my comments below are confirmed. Follow-up comments:
Chair 2/3 – Estimated vertical and length for the lengthened lifts are about 210-215 ft vertical and about 1255 ft inclined length.
Chair 4 – Matches perfectly for vertical and length with topo map and length calc tools with 1997 SAM stats.
Chair 5 – The data from the Alpine Valley WISCONSIN installation for 1995 matches the calculated stats at Alpine Valley MICHIGAN. This was pointed out on the separate Chair 5 page. This is definitely the 1995 installation.
Chair 8 – Matches perfectly for vertical and length with topo map and length calc tools with 1987 SAM vertical/length stats.
Chair 9 – Calculated stats using the same tools are about 65 ft vertical and 555 ft inclined length.
Chair 10 – While currently out of service, this is a lot closer to the SAM stats from the 1971 or 1972 installation as you have indicated above. Were these entries the same lift published twice? There is really nowhere else on the mountain where those stats would make sense at all.
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Further research on Chair 9 indicates the lift was indeed licensed by Michigan in 1972, so likely was an original installation and not a relocation. Sorry, I guess my memory failed me on this one.
Without pulling the actual public records or consulting Alpine Valley itself, I cannot confirm much else. The SAM stats from my source clearly appear to be a copy/paste error from the 1971 installation (Chair 10). I stand behind my numbers from the previous post as being a good estimate (65 vert/555 length).
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Internet chat has this area sold to Wisconsin resort inc. Website states ‘under new ownership”.
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I’m sad to see the beginner terrain pod completely wiped off the 2022 trail map, indicating it’s closed for now. While it’s not very compelling terrain for intermediates and certainly not for experts, it seemed like a unique setup that could be used for beginners and ski school to keep them isolated from better and more intimidating skiers. I can only guess that the snowmaking infrastructure is dated, and with old lift stock (1972 Hall center-pole double and very old rope tows, along with a removed 1971 Hall center-pole double) and part of it being southern or southeastern exposure, it isn’t worth it to keep it open. Also, it was hard to get to, considering you had to use a rope tow and skate over the top of a little ridge. Getting back to the main area was just as difficult.
While not being overly challenging when comparing to “up north” areas in Michigan, even with fairly easy intermediate terrain, Alpine Valley doesn’t have any easy beginner terrain anymore outside of the learning hill and the short slope across from it with the rope tow. I wonder if they would consider bringing the pod back if they invest in the infrastructure and have a business idea of how to use it (e.g. dedicated ski school, beginner terrain park, etc.). Unfortunately, there are probably more pressing investments needed regarding the main slope lifts. I actually enjoy riding the Halls, but they are over 50 years old now.
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The reality was that prior to the acquisition by Wisconsin Resorts, Alpine Valley has been in a state of decay for years. The prior ownership never reinvested much into the ski area over the past two decades. They put a few “newer” Riblets on the hill in the 80s, and then the last new modern lift was the Riblet triple in the 90s.
The rest was the fleet of original and aging Halls.
They never invested in their snowmaking system and had anywhere near the capacity/capability that Mt. Holly or Pine Knob did. Mt. Brighton was in similiar shape until Vail Resorts bought it and made investments in the area.
For the past decade, Alpine was well behind the other 3 downstate areas in terms of snowmaking and infrastructure. With the notorious freeze-thaw cycles, in some years they really struggled to get much of their main terrain open.
Not surprised to see them idle the Chair 9/10 area for the time being. At least the new owners have installed a lot of new snowmaking infrastructure this season.
I haven’t skied there in the past 3-4 years (pre-pandemic) but I’ll have to check it out this year.
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I was out at Alpine Valley today….
Chair 6 / Hall double has been removed and the towers / bullwheels / carriers are all sitting in the back of the parking lot.
Chair 9 & 10 are still in-place but this portion of the ski area has been abandoned for the time being.
They have installed a lot of new snowmaking equipment on the main runs on the hill.
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I think Chair 2 & 3 are coming due for replacement very soon, as I noticed they have some survey stakes on the hill marking an alignment right between the existing two chairs. I assume replacement will just be a single fixed grip chair, and wouldn’t be totally shocked if its a used / repurposed lift from somewhere else.
Chair 6 was removed over the summer and out in the back of the parking lot.
I am pretty sure that Chair 7 never spun this season.
Chair 8 (the center pole quad) seems super rickety.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see 7 & 8 replaced in the near future with a single fixed grip lift.
Chair 9 and Chair 10 terrain has been abandoned like mentioned up-thread, but the lifts still remain on the hill.
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It will be interesting to see what happens where 2/3 are. Wisconsin Resorts often repurposes lifts, and with a new detachable going in at Mount Holly, Chair 6 (1975 Hall fixed-grip triple) is coming out, but I think replacing 1968 Halls with a 1975 Hall workhorse is not a good investment. I do wonder if they will leave Chair 7 in at Holly, since it usually only runs on busy weekend days or holidays. A 1985 Riblet with less miles on it might work here, but it has a shorter line than AV Chairs 2 and 3. The Green chair at Nubs Nob is coming out this year, so that late-model Riblet quad could be an option and make AV pretty much a Riblet mountain if Chair 7 doesn’t spin.
Regarding Chairs 7/8, since they have different off-load peaks, one chair really doesn’t replace both. The area’s peak has very little real estate, so it can only handle one lift without building it up with more fill. Since Chair 7 doesn’t run much and I’m not sure they need the extra uphill capacity, it could probably just be removed without replacement. I don’t love Chair 8 (those center-pole Riblet carriers are just not user-friendly compared to their bail carriers or even today’s SkyTrac designs), but I wouldn’t be surprised if it sticks around for longer.
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I have a feeling some major changes are in store for Alpine Valley over the next few years since the ownership change and now that Wisconsin Resorts has been able to develop a plan to redevelop and replace all the aging infrastructure at a neglected Alpine Valley. The most urgent priority was snowmaking and they have made noticable improvements in such over the past years. It was evident this year with the challenging freeze-thaw cycles we experienced in SE Michigan. With Jan & Feb being warmer than most of March in all.
Like said, I’m pretty sure that 2 & 3 are going to be replaced with a single fixed-grip.
7&8 will also be replaced with a single fixed-grip and likely some slope recontouring.
FWIW, the Nubs green lift is not going anywhere else. Its going to primarily be a parts donor of sheaves, clips, a few carriers for the remainder of their Riblet fleet. They are selling off the balance of their chairs. I only say that they may repurpose parts of a lift from somewhere else even if just towers and carriers but in this era the days of straight-up repurposing plug-and-play style of aging Riblets and Halls are pretty much over.
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It appears on the 2023 New Lifts page now that Chair 2 is getting replaced with a new Skytrac triple for next season.
Funny I never remember ever seeing or hearing an announcement about this, but I knew something was up when I saw survey markers back on the hill in March when they were still open.
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I know about a majority of the lift upgrades that happen throughout the country. I live 15 minutes from here and had no idea they built a new lift until I pulled into the parking lot last weekend.
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I learned to ski at Pine Knob and further at Mt Holly, but no longer live in the area. I last went skiing at both Alpine Valley and Mt Brighton over a decade ago, before moving out of SE Michigan. Pretty sure that the coney island near the entrance on M-59 had better food than their cafeteria then. That said, AV is not a bad hill and it’s good to see Wisc Resorts put in the new improvements rather than AV going out of business. This is more work than what Vail had to do at Mt Brighton, I think.
Chair 1 was on the hill when I skied there for the first time in the 1990s, but not operating on those days. Does anyone have photos of it? I never ventured back to the now-lost Chair 9 and 10 pod. Not sure why Chair 7 is still officially in service, as it was just as rickety as Chair 6. Unless things have changed, Chair 8’s drive is still semi modern and I would just swap out the carriers. My guess is that both Chairs 7 and 8 will also be replaced by SkyTrac sometime.
If I was, I dunno, a bat, I would make the drive terminal enclosure of chair 5 as my top secret lair, if only for the summer season. I remember the drive terminals of Chairs 4 and 5 being pretty noisy under the enclosures. Otherwise, standard later Riblet triples. I like the bumped-out sidebars of late Riblet triple carriers more than I like most people. The chairs are just comfortable. Sure, the new Doppelmayr triples up at Caberfae are smooth, but the late Riblets just feel right as a rider. I must be an old timer. My memory managed to forget that Nubs’ orange lift and the two long triples at Pine Knob used to have straight sidebars, like all the really old 1960s triples ripped out of the south side of The Highlands this summer.
With Lift 6 at Mt Holly going HSQ, there’s probably zero point in having Lifts 5 and 7 still on the back of the hill. That’s fine, as Mt Holiday could use some late 1980s Riblet triple bent sidebar goodnews. Cmon guys, donate them.
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Don’t mess with the ol St Lawrence at Mt Holiday, but the Poma / telecar could use some love.
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Why are there 3 resorts named Alpine Valley!?
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