The evidence of the conversion being the style of footrests on the chairs, and the portal tower at the bottom (consistent with a Poma fixed grip quad loading area).
so i have seen a boneyard from google earth at winter park what lift could be in the I do know it is riblet ski lift but witch one would you say it is?
Apollo,Eskimo,Hughes or prospector
I’m not sure about any of the old riblets, but in the corona parking lot, I have seen the old Sunnyside lift sitting there, disassembled.
Here are the coordinates: 39.867314 105.754038
I have a question about old Eskimo the riblet double so about of people have seen it how come the top terminal is different model then the other riblet top terminals
It was a tension return terminal. Riblet were one the first chairlift manufactures to introduce hydraulic tensioning. If you look at the destructive testing video with the fire one the top terminal jolts backwards because of the cable snapping at the bottom. The top terminal could be upgraded by someone else like Yan or Poma but I dont know.
When Siberia Express (at Squaw Valley) was installed (also in 1985), the majority of the workings were made in France… The pics of Summit Express and my memories of running Siberia Express gives me the impression that the only difference is that the drive/tension systems are flip-flopped so I’m guessing they’re “sister lifts” from Poma’s Grenoble operations… A noisy, chain driven conveyor system made the first generation Pomas interesting, as well as a pain when dealing with chair spacing… One year later, the Grand Junction-built Poma detachables were much quieter…
I dunno, even the chain systems of the Grand Junction built lifts could make a lot of noise. If you look at this video I made of Copper Mountain’s original American Eagle a few years ago, the chain system is/was very noisy:
Re: Noisy Siberia Express / Poma Detach. 1985 — Siberia when running 5 m/sec tended to shake the metal external panels of the lower terminal… The construction crew may not have properly attached (isolated from vibration) those panels. The Shirley Lake Poma Detach, at Squaw, was a Grand Junction creation and it sounded almost exactly like the American Eagle (shown in the below video). Both lifts had a minimal amount of plexi-glass windows as compared to the American Eagle. Rattling metal kinda drives a lift operator bonkers.
To summarize, this master plan envisions the Zephyr Gondola as a two-stage to Lunch Rock. It also envisions Sunnyside as merely a high speed quad, not a six pack. There’s also an envisioned pod of advanced intermediate trails in Vasquez Cirque served by a fixed grip quad, with egress via Eagle Wind or the Pioneer Express (with there also being a new trail connecting the top of the Pioneer Express to the bottom of Eagle Wind). A mid-load is shown being added to the Pioneer Express around the point where the lift actually begins climbing (given the lift’s age, it’s more likely to only be added if a complete replacement of the lift is made).
In the Winter Park area, the master plan also has the Gemini Express being replaced with a gondola, and Endeavor being upgraded to a high speed quad.
Plans can change between the drafting of a master plan and the implementation of its projects. There were originally plans for Harmony 6 at Whistler to become an 8-pack, but they cut back on that. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alterra cuts the lunch rock gondola.
If they build the Lunch Rock Gondola, I think it would actually be a completely separate lift from The Gondola, kind of like Outpost at Keystone. The capacity requirement is nowhere near 3600 because there are no trails that can be lapped from it. I also don’t think it’s necessary. It would be completely redundant with the High Lonesome Express.
That beginner area plan is interesting. Looks similar to what’s planned at Steamboat. Gondola would replace the Gemini Express on a different alignment. It says D4C replacement for Endeavor, so I think that would be a relocated Gemini Express, and an additional fixed grip would be added. I wonder if Alterra is still interested in this plan, and if they’d do it before or after replacing Pioneer.
@Kaden K: I’m with Collin, a gondola from Sunspot to Lunch Rock would be redundant so long as the High Lonesome Express is there. Plus, you can avoid the catwalk by skiing down to the Olympia Express, riding up that, then skiing Hook Up to the High Lonesome Express lift.
such a gondola would probably help reduce crowding on super gauge. Would it be possible to have an extension of the current gondola, just with one for every 5 cabins going all the way to lunch rock?
I’m surprised Challenger’s not in there. It’s a pretty important lift with the parking around it and it’s pretty old. Also if it were to go HSQ it would relieve super guage, which gets a pretty big line.
I would think challenger would make an excellent candidate to be replaced with a high speed quad. It would take much of the burden off of super gauge which doesn’t have enough capacity for its trail cluster.
Outrigger only operated until 2003. It then sat standing but not operating until the end of the 2005-2006 season, when it was moved to build Eagle Wind. I know this because I skied Winter Park regularly in the 2004-2005 season and Outrigger at that time was simply standing, devoid of chairs except for three at the top that were being used for lift evac training purposes. By the 2005-2006 season, they’d removed all towers from the bottom up to Cranmer Cutoff.
Certainly it ran more before the Eskimo Express was built. Before 1999, there were always three lifts on that face. Apollo (Riblet double), Eskimo (Riblet double), and the Outrigger T-Bar were the original three. The Outrigger T-Bar was replaced with the triple chairlift in 1978. The Eskimo double was destroyed in 1990 as part of the endurance and lift failure tests. They replaced it with the Zephyr triple–which had been displaced by the Zephyr Express lift (the Zephyr Express reused the drive terminal mast from the Yan triple on its top terminal)–which I believe was outfitted with Poma Competition chairs as part of the relocation.
There were still three lifts on that face: Apollo, Eskimo and Outrigger. Outrigger probably saw the least use of the three since it didn’t service Sunspot, instead bypassing the restaurant and ending at a point on March Hare above the High Lonesome Express access trail. And because of that, I believe that after 1999, when the Eskimo Express was built to replace the Eskimo triple and Apollo double in one fell swoop, Outrigger only ever saw use during peak periods or whenever the Eskimo Express went down (which was probably rare on account of being a new lift).
I think they should build a lift from the cabriolet to the base of iron horse, and a short second stage going from the base of the cabriolet to the south of the zephyr mountain lodge, ending just before the current gondola line. I think it would allow for much more development toward Mary jane.
Thats what sober englishman is for and what high lonesome is for. They wouldn’t do that because it would too much pressure on super gauge and then they would have to run iron horse everyday.
Super Gauge would be relieved if Iron Horse was upgraded to a high speed quad, and maybe Challenger was upgraded to a fixed grip quad or a triple chairlift.
These are ideas what Winter park should do in the future or just suggestion. Btw read the things from top-bottom.
The last two where just some fun ideas I thought they were cool if they added them.
The Lunch Rock Gondola has been talked about for a few years, and I know Winter Park installed the Gondola with the ability to add a second stage, so it could happen. Iron Horse Express does not make too much sense, as a detachable backup lift is impractical and too expensive. Perhaps if Iron Horse instead ended at Sunspot it could be used to help get skiers out of Mary Jane and not be delegated to backup status. Upgrading Challenger to a triple makes more sense given its role, but perhaps the top station should be moved southeast to make it an easy way to get to Sunnyside/Panoramic. I agree with the Looking Glass upgrade as well, although I would move the bottom terminal down Wagon Train to the intersection with Tinhorn just to slightly increase its small pod. This also eliminates the need for an Olympia upgrade, as it helps get people out of Vasquez Ridge and back towards the main base. The Pioneer replacement makes sense due to its age, although maybe a detachable six-pack with increased chair spacing to maintain equal capacity but increase loading efficiency would be best (like Sunnyside). The Lonesome upgrade is similar in that I would go with a six-pack instead of another detachable quad. The Gemeni gondola has been mentioned in the past in different iterations, so it may happen, although I do not personally think it is a pressing need. I like your Vasquez chair idea as well, but I would move the base farther downhill to allow access from Eagle Wind.
I really think Challenger should go detachable before Iron Horse. Mary Jane basically has two areas where all the trails end: Utah Junction and the main Mary Jane base. Yes, you can ski down from Utah Junction to Mary Jane base, but it really does feel separated and Challenger serves this “Mary Jane East” pod. Upgrading it will greatly reduce the pressure on Super Gauge because skiers wanting a fast ride up will not ski right by Challenger to Super Gauge after arriving at Utah Junction. Iron Horse is purely a backup lift to Super Gauge, and that is not changing unless its alignment is altered (such as ending it at Sunspot like I mentioned above). Upgrading it in its current state before Challenger makes little sense.
I doubt it. Removed on camera in 1990, not very nicely either. Maybe the tower footers are still there and possibly the terminal concrete (although that might have been removed during one or the other of the later Eskimo lift builds).
I was looking on google maps and found a outdoor “storage area”. When I zoomed into I found what looks to be like the sunnyside triple drive building and then a bullwheel. There are also other parts and a small maitnence shack. It is close to looking glass and prospector but there is a road going to it. I wonder what else they have back there.
I believe that is where they store the terrain park gear in the summer such as rails, some snow guns, and race houses. I do know they have a lift boneyard behind the Cabriolet parking lot with some haul rope, chairs, and some gondolas left over from Zephyr.
Well possible but I know that most of the terrain park gear is stored right out side of the tunnel near Cranmer. In the summer this area is called five points and there is a lot of rails stored over there.
Just to be nitpicky, the High Lonesome lift wasn’t removed– it was converted to a detach.
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The evidence of the conversion being the style of footrests on the chairs, and the portal tower at the bottom (consistent with a Poma fixed grip quad loading area).
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so i have seen a boneyard from google earth at winter park what lift could be in the I do know it is riblet ski lift but witch one would you say it is?
Apollo,Eskimo,Hughes or prospector
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Can you please tell me approximately where this is compared to some of the lifts? Thanks!
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I’m not sure about any of the old riblets, but in the corona parking lot, I have seen the old Sunnyside lift sitting there, disassembled.
Here are the coordinates: 39.867314 105.754038
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Wrong coordinates, try these ones: 39.867314, -105.754038
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Likely the old Apollo. They probably use parts off of it to keep Looking Glass going, but even that lift’s days are numbered.
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I have a question about old Eskimo the riblet double so about of people have seen it how come the top terminal is different model then the other riblet top terminals
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It was a tension return terminal. Riblet were one the first chairlift manufactures to introduce hydraulic tensioning. If you look at the destructive testing video with the fire one the top terminal jolts backwards because of the cable snapping at the bottom. The top terminal could be upgraded by someone else like Yan or Poma but I dont know.
Video: https://youtu.be/u4WPSZojtyE?t=15m16s
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Was zypher scrapped or sold
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scrapped. The chairs are now at the bus stops around town.
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high lonesome express has 141 chairs not 147
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I’m pretty sure the gondola has 77 cabins.
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Sort of. The capacity for the line is 75 but they bought two extras.
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When Siberia Express (at Squaw Valley) was installed (also in 1985), the majority of the workings were made in France… The pics of Summit Express and my memories of running Siberia Express gives me the impression that the only difference is that the drive/tension systems are flip-flopped so I’m guessing they’re “sister lifts” from Poma’s Grenoble operations… A noisy, chain driven conveyor system made the first generation Pomas interesting, as well as a pain when dealing with chair spacing… One year later, the Grand Junction-built Poma detachables were much quieter…
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I dunno, even the chain systems of the Grand Junction built lifts could make a lot of noise. If you look at this video I made of Copper Mountain’s original American Eagle a few years ago, the chain system is/was very noisy:
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Re: Noisy Siberia Express / Poma Detach. 1985 — Siberia when running 5 m/sec tended to shake the metal external panels of the lower terminal… The construction crew may not have properly attached (isolated from vibration) those panels. The Shirley Lake Poma Detach, at Squaw, was a Grand Junction creation and it sounded almost exactly like the American Eagle (shown in the below video). Both lifts had a minimal amount of plexi-glass windows as compared to the American Eagle. Rattling metal kinda drives a lift operator bonkers.
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Hey, Peter, Do you have the master plan for Winter Park? I would love to see it if you have it.
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Here’s a map of it:
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To summarize, this master plan envisions the Zephyr Gondola as a two-stage to Lunch Rock. It also envisions Sunnyside as merely a high speed quad, not a six pack. There’s also an envisioned pod of advanced intermediate trails in Vasquez Cirque served by a fixed grip quad, with egress via Eagle Wind or the Pioneer Express (with there also being a new trail connecting the top of the Pioneer Express to the bottom of Eagle Wind). A mid-load is shown being added to the Pioneer Express around the point where the lift actually begins climbing (given the lift’s age, it’s more likely to only be added if a complete replacement of the lift is made).
In the Winter Park area, the master plan also has the Gemini Express being replaced with a gondola, and Endeavor being upgraded to a high speed quad.
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Why does the now built gondola say Combi?
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Plans can change between the drafting of a master plan and the implementation of its projects. There were originally plans for Harmony 6 at Whistler to become an 8-pack, but they cut back on that. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alterra cuts the lunch rock gondola.
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why not just remove the flat part and start where the mid will be? seems like no-one would go to the end
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If they build the Lunch Rock Gondola, I think it would actually be a completely separate lift from The Gondola, kind of like Outpost at Keystone. The capacity requirement is nowhere near 3600 because there are no trails that can be lapped from it. I also don’t think it’s necessary. It would be completely redundant with the High Lonesome Express.
That beginner area plan is interesting. Looks similar to what’s planned at Steamboat. Gondola would replace the Gemini Express on a different alignment. It says D4C replacement for Endeavor, so I think that would be a relocated Gemini Express, and an additional fixed grip would be added. I wonder if Alterra is still interested in this plan, and if they’d do it before or after replacing Pioneer.
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The Mary Jane gondola from winter park would be good because the cat track from Sunspot to High Lonesome is really horrible and annoying.
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@Kaden K: I’m with Collin, a gondola from Sunspot to Lunch Rock would be redundant so long as the High Lonesome Express is there. Plus, you can avoid the catwalk by skiing down to the Olympia Express, riding up that, then skiing Hook Up to the High Lonesome Express lift.
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such a gondola would probably help reduce crowding on super gauge. Would it be possible to have an extension of the current gondola, just with one for every 5 cabins going all the way to lunch rock?
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I’m surprised Challenger’s not in there. It’s a pretty important lift with the parking around it and it’s pretty old. Also if it were to go HSQ it would relieve super guage, which gets a pretty big line.
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I would think challenger would make an excellent candidate to be replaced with a high speed quad. It would take much of the burden off of super gauge which doesn’t have enough capacity for its trail cluster.
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Outrigger only operated until 2003. It then sat standing but not operating until the end of the 2005-2006 season, when it was moved to build Eagle Wind. I know this because I skied Winter Park regularly in the 2004-2005 season and Outrigger at that time was simply standing, devoid of chairs except for three at the top that were being used for lift evac training purposes. By the 2005-2006 season, they’d removed all towers from the bottom up to Cranmer Cutoff.
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How often did Outrigger run once the Eskimo Express was built? Can’t imagine much. It probably ran more before the express.
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Certainly it ran more before the Eskimo Express was built. Before 1999, there were always three lifts on that face. Apollo (Riblet double), Eskimo (Riblet double), and the Outrigger T-Bar were the original three. The Outrigger T-Bar was replaced with the triple chairlift in 1978. The Eskimo double was destroyed in 1990 as part of the endurance and lift failure tests. They replaced it with the Zephyr triple–which had been displaced by the Zephyr Express lift (the Zephyr Express reused the drive terminal mast from the Yan triple on its top terminal)–which I believe was outfitted with Poma Competition chairs as part of the relocation.
There were still three lifts on that face: Apollo, Eskimo and Outrigger. Outrigger probably saw the least use of the three since it didn’t service Sunspot, instead bypassing the restaurant and ending at a point on March Hare above the High Lonesome Express access trail. And because of that, I believe that after 1999, when the Eskimo Express was built to replace the Eskimo triple and Apollo double in one fell swoop, Outrigger only ever saw use during peak periods or whenever the Eskimo Express went down (which was probably rare on account of being a new lift).
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I saw the new sunnyside chairs and they have child protectors and it didn’t look like they had footrests on the bars
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Odd that they’d skip on footrests when the other two six packs have them.
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when will you go to winter park to take pictures of the new sunnyside express?
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what about a 2 way lift from the base of the gondola ish area to the super gauge area?
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I think they should build a lift from the cabriolet to the base of iron horse, and a short second stage going from the base of the cabriolet to the south of the zephyr mountain lodge, ending just before the current gondola line. I think it would allow for much more development toward Mary jane.
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Thats what sober englishman is for and what high lonesome is for. They wouldn’t do that because it would too much pressure on super gauge and then they would have to run iron horse everyday.
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Super Gauge would be relieved if Iron Horse was upgraded to a high speed quad, and maybe Challenger was upgraded to a fixed grip quad or a triple chairlift.
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And That means they would have to postpone bus service going to the base of the jane.
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I just learned this but you can ski at Winter Park for free. It says on their website that the Galloping goose lift you can ride for free.
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https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1OaAhTsYrdh_iLqyQWeNGXbN9tTP-RzQk&ll=39.86751584934714%2C-105.77761040000001&z=14
These are ideas what Winter park should do in the future or just suggestion. Btw read the things from top-bottom.
The last two where just some fun ideas I thought they were cool if they added them.
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The Lunch Rock Gondola has been talked about for a few years, and I know Winter Park installed the Gondola with the ability to add a second stage, so it could happen. Iron Horse Express does not make too much sense, as a detachable backup lift is impractical and too expensive. Perhaps if Iron Horse instead ended at Sunspot it could be used to help get skiers out of Mary Jane and not be delegated to backup status. Upgrading Challenger to a triple makes more sense given its role, but perhaps the top station should be moved southeast to make it an easy way to get to Sunnyside/Panoramic. I agree with the Looking Glass upgrade as well, although I would move the bottom terminal down Wagon Train to the intersection with Tinhorn just to slightly increase its small pod. This also eliminates the need for an Olympia upgrade, as it helps get people out of Vasquez Ridge and back towards the main base. The Pioneer replacement makes sense due to its age, although maybe a detachable six-pack with increased chair spacing to maintain equal capacity but increase loading efficiency would be best (like Sunnyside). The Lonesome upgrade is similar in that I would go with a six-pack instead of another detachable quad. The Gemeni gondola has been mentioned in the past in different iterations, so it may happen, although I do not personally think it is a pressing need. I like your Vasquez chair idea as well, but I would move the base farther downhill to allow access from Eagle Wind.
Overall, excellent ideas.
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Upgrading Iron Horse and making it a daily lift would siphon traffic off of Super Gauge for at least that portion of Mary Jane.
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I really think Challenger should go detachable before Iron Horse. Mary Jane basically has two areas where all the trails end: Utah Junction and the main Mary Jane base. Yes, you can ski down from Utah Junction to Mary Jane base, but it really does feel separated and Challenger serves this “Mary Jane East” pod. Upgrading it will greatly reduce the pressure on Super Gauge because skiers wanting a fast ride up will not ski right by Challenger to Super Gauge after arriving at Utah Junction. Iron Horse is purely a backup lift to Super Gauge, and that is not changing unless its alignment is altered (such as ending it at Sunspot like I mentioned above). Upgrading it in its current state before Challenger makes little sense.
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Are there any remains of the Eskimo double?
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I doubt it. Removed on camera in 1990, not very nicely either. Maybe the tower footers are still there and possibly the terminal concrete (although that might have been removed during one or the other of the later Eskimo lift builds).
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Tower footers are still there. You can see a giant concrete slab in the summer right under eskimo then you can see footers to the right of eskimo.
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I was looking on google maps and found a outdoor “storage area”. When I zoomed into I found what looks to be like the sunnyside triple drive building and then a bullwheel. There are also other parts and a small maitnence shack. It is close to looking glass and prospector but there is a road going to it. I wonder what else they have back there.
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I believe that is where they store the terrain park gear in the summer such as rails, some snow guns, and race houses. I do know they have a lift boneyard behind the Cabriolet parking lot with some haul rope, chairs, and some gondolas left over from Zephyr.
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Well possible but I know that most of the terrain park gear is stored right out side of the tunnel near Cranmer. In the summer this area is called five points and there is a lot of rails stored over there.
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