- An updated Stratton master plan envisions a competition T-Bar in 2027, a hotel-to-base chairlift in 2030 and gondola replacement circa 2033.
- Los Angeles releases the Draft Supplemental Environmental Report for the proposed Dodger Stadium gondola.
- The Forest Service approves Vail’s proposed replacements for lifts 15 and 21.
- Spirit Mountain’s new Leitner-Poma quad to be called Highline.
- Asked about new lifts on the Vail Resorts earnings conference call, CEO Rob Katz tells analysts priorities lie mostly elsewhere:
“We’re always going to be upgrading lifts; we announced a new lift for next year and that’s critical. But I think we need to realize also as a company and as an industry that it can’t just be about lifts. It’s not the only thing that matters to people. And in our minds we think there’s technology that can make a big difference. How people use technology in the digital experience, how it makes it easier for them to rent skis, how it makes it easier for them to connect with their ski instructor, how it makes it easier for them to get food, how it makes it easier for them to get around a resort or overall book a vacation. I think these are all things that are critical that really speak to the entirety of the guest experience when they come to us. Those are things where we really have a unique advantage because we own and operate all our resorts. They’re all on a common platform. And it’s where you invest dollars that actually impact everyone’s experience with all of our resorts rather than a singular lift, which affects one resort for some people who use that lift. Now that said, we have to keep investing in lifts. When you look back historically, you’ve seen us spend a lot of money on lifts over the last four years. So that’s continuing. We’re still going to keep proposing lifts. But I think the differentiator is going to be in this other area which is not as capital intensive as trying to replace every lift on Vail Mountain or something like that. That’s where we’re putting our focus.”
- A Swiss resort Vail was said to be interested in, Flims Laax, to be purchased by local municipalities.
- Some cool pictures of the nearly complete Mighty Argo Cable Car.
- A BC indigenous group acquires additional land for the proposed Cascade Skyline Gondola.
- BigRock, Maine introduces a new trail map painted by Rad Smith.
- Part of the former Iron Mountain Ski Area near Kirkwood goes up for sale. A reader who’d like to remain anonymous sent along these recent photos of five abandoned lifts.
Lift Blog 
Wall St to Katz: “Do you even lift, bro?”
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FYI. The Spokane Valley heritage museum has a good little exhibit on the Riblet Tramway Co.
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The Stratton MP also indicates a new South American replacement. It’s in the 5-10 year range, but with a date of 2026 which must be a mistake.
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Where did you find the MP Plan? I know Stratton is working on a big upgrade project, but I haven’t seen anything about it.
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it was in the link. 2nd page
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I have been under the impression that new Tamarack would be the end of South American.
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Speaking of lift photos, Peter, I’ve got some from Ski Discovery, MT; specifically of Rumsey and Silver Chief. They’re a couple seasons old by now but I got the chance to ride them both and seized the opportunity to take photos if you’re interested.
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Funny I just rode Silver Chief yesterday to get more pictures of the line. Feel free to send Rumsey ones to Peter@liftblog.com. Thanks.
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The Vail entry feels like a lot of word salad. At the end of the day it really is just about the lifts Rob!
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I do think the underlying point Rob Katz is making is valid. The cost of a new ski lift has skyrocketed above inflation, particularly over the past 5 years, and tech can be felt company-wide, whereas a new lift only benefits one resort. However, the underlying issue is that Vail’s CapEx is only ~$250 million, which is below what it should be given the company’s growth aspirations.
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I’m not sure it is all that valid when the skiing public considers fast, efficient, safe lifts as table stakes for their patronage. No one is throwing down $1K for My Epic Gear if the lifts are old, slow, over-crowded or not working.
The problem, as you get to, is that their are allocating 70% of their FCF to support shareholder returns, and even then that’s not working. They have starved the product of the cash flows it needs to thrive, and unless they take meaningful steps on that strategic choice, the rest of this is just idle chit chat.
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I think this is the problem with the scale of Vail Resorts at this point.
– It has a market cap of $5.6 billion, which is probably lower than the total value of the resorts if they were separate assets. Whistler-Blackcomb alone was valued at $1.5 billion when Vail acquired a 75% stake in 2016, and while it would have increased if it had been independent since then, it’s hard to imagine Whistler alone comprises a quarter of the value of the entire company.
– It’s projecting EBITDA of only ~$840M – $900M in FY2026, which pales in comparison to the broader entertainment and recreation sector. Again, that would likely be higher if all of the individual resorts were separately owned and operated.
Fundamentally, the company has gotten too large to be able to afford the level of capex required for such a large lift network. The acquisitions it has made haven’t been accretive enough to the company’s market cap and/or EBITDA. They could stop doing a shareholder dividend for a few years, and that might buy them some money for capex. But when a dividend is table-stakes for other public companies in the sector, that couldn’t be a long-term fix. They kind of don’t have many options to get back to a sustainable space, short of maybe spinning off Whistler and/or the smaller resorts in the Midwest and East. Skiing is a much more capital intensive industry than Vail Resorts treats it.
I’ll note that Alterra is arguably running into a similar problem, though it’s obviously a private company so much more complicated dynamics at play.
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Financially, I think the issue is that Vail owns resorts that are not contributing to its bottom line. Does Vail need 2 resorts in the Cleveland market? 3 in the Pittsburgh market? 3 in the DMV market? 4 in NH (given they also have 3 in VT)? It could probably sell ~5 resorts (and the dozens of lifts there) and not see a drop in its earnings or Epic Pass sales. The European experiment is also likely a waste of money (and I think Rob Katz has recently admitted as much). They have thrown a ton of money there, but with current exchange rates, a less concentrated market, and a lower price premium, it is just not a good ROI. It is cheaper to simply partner with resorts and pay them per skier visit.
Vail is also living in 2008 with its aversion to real estate. It contributes borderline nothing to its bottom line. Excluding Deer Valley East Village, where Alterra is not seeing much real estate revenue, Alterra is at least a partner in developments at varying stages at Deer Valley Snow Park, Steamboat, Winter Park, Palisades Tahoe, and Mammoth. These projects are often the source of funds for CapEx at their respective resorts.
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Excellent points here.
Yup, and in addition to not seeing a drop in earnings or pass sales, they probably wouldn’t see any impact to their market cap. In this case, the former Peak Resorts are literally weighing down the company’s valuation. It’s not unlike the issue we see in media, where the declining cable business is weighing down entire companies whose streaming services have real growth potential.
Yup, absolutely. I think Ikon’s success with its international partners really affirms the value of this approach.
I never would have thought this a few years ago, but you’re totally right. What was Vail’s last big real estate project? Peak 8 at Breckenridge? I’ll also add that while Alterra isn’t getting any direct revenue from the Deer Valley East Village, that project is absolutely helping to fund lift and other infrastructure on the mountain.
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I think Katz is correct in that Vail’s biggest ROI right now might be on continued tech platform investment. Their scale gives tech platform investments an opportunity to deliver. Let skiers have an app that truly is reliable and capable in every aspect of skier ecommerce. And let it be better at tracking accomplishments/fitness/finding friends too.
As for lifts – the duopoly charges a premium that seems to far outpace inflation. Vail might be waiting for a true soft spot in the industry to jump back in seeking better value. The lift boom of Alterra, Wasatch Peaks and DV has to come to a rest soon…maybe in 2027.
I don’t see the benefit of buying resorts in Europe. I think partnerships would make a lot more sense. But now that they have gone this far, they really need a flagship Euro mtn to make have a chance at any brand benefit. They need partnership with a true bluechip Euro destination.
Liquidating some of the US resorts makes sense. Wildcat, Crotched, and a few others really don’t fit. Meanwhile a Bretton Woods or Waterville Valley would be a solid fit.
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I didn’t quite get what the point of that Leitner CONNX-thing was?
The gondola would detach at the top of the lift and then drive you to the top of the mountain? Not on those wheels, I would assume. :)
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The system is not designed for skiing but mixed mode urban transportation.
From Leitner’s website-
“Unique hybrid solution combines ropeways with autonomous driverless transport and promotes the use of e-mobility in public transport”
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