- The Doppelmayr Group to merge its Frey AG Stans and Garaventa units in Switzerland.
- Four Seasons, New York closes for good to be redeveloped.
- Both the Denver Post and Colorado Sun cover growing local frustration with Telluride’s owner over gondola funding, snowmaking, labor relations and alleged personal conduct.
- Powder Mountain works to build out private skiing while maintaining a public ski resort next door.
- The former owner of closed Spout Springs, Oregon is found liable for the cost of removing improvements from Forest Service land.
Lift Blog 
I’m sad that there are sour tensions in Telluride. I hope they can work things out. Always interesting reading about PowMtn in Utah though.
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Also saw them load testing Becker at Snowbasin earlier this week. Not sure if it was a full or partial load test though, only some of the chairs seemed to have had water weight on them. Only caught them at the end when they were emptying the water out with the lift going.
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Likely they were testing download capacity- oftentimes we will do the full uphill test then remove all but those required for downloading.
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Great info, I am betting that is what it was then, thanks
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perhaps the telluridians would be happier if the 81 year old Chuck horning (who has already fired his son from running telski) sold telluride to Vail resorts
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You’re right, Vail would actually invest in the resort instead of milking it dry like Horning has. Only one new lift in 20 years for one of the largest resorts in NA under his own ownership is the definition of poor stewardship and one of many examples of why he’s a terrible owner.
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Literally anyone but Vail, Boyne by far is the goat of resort management, Vail well they just kinda suck
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Bend Over You’re Now Employed
I’ve worked for both Vail and Boyne, there’s no difference.
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boyne, the company that only manages one single mountain cuz no one cares about their other 9, is gloat by ya ?
should we start giving out trophies for participation and gold stars for mediocrity ?
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Boyne will have built at least one new lift at every single one of their resorts between 2022 and 2026. Even their two small Midwest hills have gotten five lifts including two D-lines. Vail built only built a couple despite owning nine resorts in that same region but go on about how Boyne “only cares about one resort”
Tell me one single thing Vail has done for any small feeder hills like Afton Alps, Whitetail, or Wildcat recently other than slash operating hours and/or skyrocket prices. I mean some of these places haven’t seen a new chairlift since the 70’s and Vail’s out here gaslighting everyone into believing $120 tickets for a Tuesday with two lifts running at a 200′ bump is a good thing…
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I worked at Snowbird which was the ONLY resort to give ski breaks when I was still there. Lots of former brighton employees, however everything I have heard is that Park City paid a *bit* more at the time, but that may have changed. I would say they are all pretty similar but Vail is definitely my worst experience, price to value, and also employee treatment (park city patrol strike in point). My next thing is that Boyne resorts seem to offer really good prices and a very reasonable experience, they know EXACTLY who visits their resorts and cater to that. When I rode crest express my first thought was “I paid 40 dollars for night skiing and I get this while I pay 300 for park city and wait in line all day”, basically Boyne seems like they actually know who their clientele is and actually spend money to make their mountain better than basically being a glorified real estate company with some skiing attached.
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Honestly, Boyne has spread their investments across all their resorts better than any other operator in recent years. In the last decade they’ve built:
11 D-Lines (5 at Big Sky, 2 at Sunday River, and 1 each at Loon, Brighton, Boyne Mountain, and The Highlands)
1 Uni-G (Big Sky)
4 relocated HSQs (1 each at Big Sky, Loon, Sugarloaf, and Pleasant)
19 Fixed grips (6 at Summit at Snoqualmie, 4 at Big Sky, 3 at Sunday River, 2 at Boyne Mountain, 1 each at Cypress, Gatlinburg, Loon, The Highlands)
3 Surface Lifts (1 each at Sunday River, Sugarloaf, and Big Sky)
Yes Big Sky’s gotten the most, but it’s Boyne’s flagship so it makes sense. Overall they’ve done a really good job of modernizing their lift fleet across their entire portfolio, a far better job than any of the other major operators. It’s likely to continue this way too because they have 2030 plans for the majority of their resorts that include many more lift upgrades.
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I would also argue the upgrades are proportional to the resorts themselves. Compared to all their other major resorts Big Sky is by far the largest in size, then Sunday river and Boyne mountains itself. The only lift at Brighton that was truly lacking was Crest and they upgraded that to the best thing they could have. Meanwhile Vail doesn’t seem to upgrade equally or proportionally, if ANY mountain needed new D line or 8 person lifts its Heavenly at Tahoe and yet they have gotten nothing, sky express still having the worst lift lines I have ever experienced in my life.
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And the Lone Peak Tram of course… I missed the most obvious one 😂
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It would be really cool to see Boyne get their foot in the Colorado market with Telluride if it went up for sale
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because hand-me-downs are soooooo hard to do
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They have built 35 lifts in the last decade and exactly FOUR have been relocated, the rest are brand new. If you’re going to complain about nonsense, at least make sure what you’re complaining about is accurate.
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I would also like to mention how GOOD their hand me downs have become recently from the sounds of it, after shedhorn they seem to be basically fully refurbishing the things
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How about Alterra? They’ve managed to do pretty good with Steamboat.
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Alterra is decent but kinda hit or miss sometimes, their prices are pretty high for what you get but they do actually make improvements, Deer Valley may be expensive but compared to Park City its actually something substantial. Palisades I am genuinely not sure what is going on there. I also might add that the Holding family who owns Sun Valley and Snowbasin also do a fantastic job, at least from a skier experience perspective, decent middle of the road pricing (getting more expensive at snowbasin recently) and a quality all around experience.
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Purchasing property and having exclusive access to “Blunder Haven, UT” is like having Lifetime Titanium Status at Motel 6.
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Waiting to see how this pans out. We all know 1st hand of the Ikon(ic) Epic issues we are facing at the more popular resorts (parking, lift lines, food lines, deteriorating guest experience) these days and if one could get on a mountain at market rate daily lift tix pricing but not wait in any lines, I see that as a win win for everyone. They certainly take care of their employees as well.
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because a worthless mountain that brazenly lies about its acreage, instituted paid parking as a money grab, and gaslight us by saying their slopes are emptier than my soul only because “they cap ticket sales” rather than face the hard truth no one cares for a mountain that milks you à la carte on snowcat rides
hilarious that you mentioned food offerings cuz I think airports that only have EAS air service has better food choices than Powder.
lift lines are only for the brain dead masses who don’t know how to split up their group and leverage the singles line
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actually paying people to do grouping does wonders for lift lines, and yet people still complain : )
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Yeah let’s believe that – the mountain in perpetual financial dire only got themselves into this quagmire because they spent all their money “taking good care of their employees”
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Sounds like you lost “your mountain” along with 1970’s era $19 lift tickets? Paid parking is almost everywhere in the Wasatch now. And, I didn’t mention food offerings, I mentioned Epic and Ikon food LINES!
Have you spoken to any PowMow employees of late? Oh that’s right, you only go where $19 gets you all inclusive for the single guy who brings a brown bag lunch!
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Telluride has, frankly, faded from relevance since Chuck Horning purchased the mountain. Perhaps being passed in recognition by the Wasatch resorts can be excused because the 2002 Olympics, which occurred right before his ownership, brought the spotlight to Utah. And perhaps the continued rise of the I-70 corridor resorts can be explained by Denver’s population growth. However, Big Sky has gone from a place only Midwesterners would go to a top national destination, Jackson Hole has expanded beyond its experts-only reputation, and Steamboat has been spending a substantial sum subsidizing flights into Hayden to lower airfare and bring in more visitors. Telluride has barely changed while the competition has evolved.
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Telluride needs a high net worth individual that is willing to take on the mountain as a passion project. I don’t see Telluride as a good investment idea for any of the traditional for profit operators. Highly resistant town population, virtually no good options to add more intermediate skiing, a lot of expensive lifts to upgrade.
However no town or ski experience in the US is more beautiful. Feels like a national park.
The long run heavily favors the I-70 corridor, Utah, Tahoe, BigSky, Jackson and SunValley for all the destination biz.
Need someone with deep pockets with money made elsewhere that wants an expensive toy. Someone with passion.
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@MISKIER : yet for ALLLLLLLLLLLL their progress Big Sky’s high speed infrastructure is still like 12 parsecs behind Whistler (and I’m already excluding all the real estate access ones)
Even Shakespeare couldn’t write plays this tragic.
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I’ve skied Whistler many times, but not Big Sky. Care to elaborate?
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let’s see …. SACAJA WEA 3, LONE MOOSE 3, CHALLENGER 3, IRON HORSE 4, PONY EXPRESS 3, LONE TREE 4, HEADW ATERS 2, DERRINGER 4, and DAKOTA 3.
This list is Big Sky main resort. All real estate access, Yellowstone Club, and surface lifts (T-bars, magic carpets, etc) have been pre-excluded. Directly sourced from latest trail maps at https://www.bigskyresort.com/trail-maps
(Despite having the word “Express”, Pony Express 3 is a fixed grip chair)
That’s a LOT of non-high-speed chairs, to be honest. Whistler-Blackcomb *COMBINED* has a total of 3 – Franz, which acts more as a capacity supplement to Big Red 6 Express on the busiest days), and the other 2, Olympic Chair and Magic Chair, are for the bunny hills. And there are high-speed alternatives to all 3 of them.
Same thing can’t be said for all slow lifts at Big Sky. Say Dakota 3 on the South Face (i.e. backside) of Big Sky. It exclusively covers quite a few trails (I don’t consider the ultra-long detour and go up the Lone Peak Tram again a realistic high-speed alternative to Dakota 3)
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Are you just trolling at this point? Of the fixed grip lifts you mentioned, only two exceed 3000 feet in length. For a mountain that has continued to increase lift capacity and spend extra on the bells and whistles that further improve the skiing experience, I wouldn’t be complaining. Whistler and Blackcomb’s emergence started in the 1980s so it’s no surprise they’ve been able to continually invest in infrastructure upgrades. As for Big Sky, it’s real estate boom wasn’t until 20 years later and was hit hard by 2008 so I’m not really seeing what your point is. Complaining about a resorts history doesn’t change the present.
If you compare recent upgrades in the last 10 years, not counting real estate lifts, Big Sky and Whistler Blackcomb have both installed 7 new detachable lifts. If you want to bash Boyne for whatever reason, I’d suggest getting your facts right before making statements like these. If there is something I’m not seeing here, feel free to educate me…
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I think his point is that W-B does not have terrain zones serviced only by fixed grip chairs (besides the Showcase t-bar), whereas Big Sky does. However, you are right about the fact that Big Sky is adding features to lifts such as 8-packs, Direct Drive, D-LINE, bubbles, heated seats, luxury gondolas, and an aerial tram. Whistler has Peak to Peak, many gondolas, and Fitzsimmons 8, but that’s it.
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We know the Pony Express is a fixed-grip. It was named after the original fast mail route across the West from the late 1850s-early 1860s. After reading your reply, I get the feeling you’re more concerned with whether or not a lift is high-speed, rather than if it serves its pod well. Not every lift needs to be detachable. Almost every longer fixed-grip on the continent is in my backyard, and (in my opinion) only Wayback at Keystone and C at Breck really need an upgrade. Cooper’s double is marginal in that respect. There are some lengthy ones in BC and they’re also being replaced. As others have mentioned, Big Sky’s fixed grips aren’t really that long.
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genuinely every single lift does not need to be detach, Baby thunder and Wibere at Snowbird are perfectly fine as fixed grip, hey even wildcat at Alta imo. After riding the D-Line Crest at Boyne I absolutely am on the side of quality not quantity. Just buying ONE D-Line absolutely makes up for everything else. As far as I know Whistler has two D-Lines and I can’t think of that many other Vail mountains that have D-Lines let alone anything with bubbles. Meanwhile almost EVERY single major Boyne mountain has a D-Line. Boyne also seems to know who their clientele are at their mountains, Brighton still feels like a local mountain. Meanwhile most Vail resorts I have been to feel all the same, ie 300 dollar lift tickets, expensive food, crowds, and expensive hotels.
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Whistler has only one, but I agree
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@Henry LAX
Would you rather waste 20 minutes of you day on slow lifts at big sky or 2 hours in lift lines at whistler?
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also this is just a theory but looking at the equipment of Fitzsimmons at Whistler it looks like they only got a Dline because its the only 8 person lift to so far have support in America, no bubbles, no direct drive, as base model as it gets. My main issue with Vail is they charge you the price of a luxury resort but the actual luxury features arent included. You don’t get access to the food or lodging for that, instead you get the longest liftlines ever and the same lifts you could get at your local resort. Boynes ticket prices are really scaled in comparison to what you get, go to big sky and get bubble chairs, state of the art lifts, so on. Heck even alterra is doing great, Deer Valley (Alterra) has basically the exact same ticket prices as Park City (Vail), yet Deer Valley has two D-Line chairs and has just made an enormous expansion. Meanwhile Park City has one bubble chair that wasn’t even installed by Vail. I am aware that they are facing resistance to do upgrades on the Park City side but come on, cant the prices reflect the real experience? I just want to see some changes in the ski industry for the better and I think of all of the major resort companies Boyne does the best job at this.
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