Vail Resorts today announced it will pump $320 million into its mountains coming out of the pandemic, building a whopping 19 new lifts next year. The company’s largest-ever annual investment will include a new gondola at Whistler Blackcomb, the firm’s first North American eight person chairlift at Park City and expansion into Bergman Bowl at Keystone. Vail properties across the Northeast and Midwest will also see new lifts. “Our mission at Vail Resorts is to provide an Experience of a Lifetime to anyone who visits our resorts – and delivering on that mission requires constant re-imagination and investment into the guest experience,” said Rob Katz, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Vail Resorts. “Our teams have been hard at work identifying significant opportunities to improve the guest experience and have produced an initial list of exciting lift upgrades, a restaurant expansion and projects that expand access to incredible terrain for next season, with more to be announced.”
Subject to government approvals, lift projects planned ahead of the 2022-23 season include:
British Columbia, Canada
- Whistler Blackcomb, Creekside Gondola: A new 8-person gondola, replacing the existing 6-person gondola, will significantly improve wait times and increase out-of-base uphill capacity by 35% in the Creekside area, especially on high-volume days.
- Whistler Blackcomb, Big Red Express: The replacement of the existing high-speed 4-person lift with a high-speed 6-person chair will increase uphill capacity by nearly 30% and enhance and modernize the guest experience mid-mountain out of the Creekside area.
Colorado
- Keystone Resort, Bergman Bowl: Enhancements to Bergman Bowl will include a new high-speed 6-person chairlift, increasing lift-served terrain by 555 acres. Additional enhancements include 16 new trails, a ski patrol facility and snowmaking infrastructure. This project unlocks access for novice and intermediate guests and provides expanded entry to expert terrain in Independence and Erickson Bowls.
- Vail Mountain, Sun Down Lift: The installation of a new high-speed 4-person chair in the Sun Down Bowl from the base of Chair 5 (High Noon Express) to the Wildwood restaurant will materially reduce wait times on peak days at Chair 5 and create the opportunity for skiers and riders to much more conveniently access the trails in Sun Down Bowl.
- Vail Mountain, Game Creek Bowl: Skiers and riders will see improved reliability and capacity in this popular bowl with the replacement of the current 4-person chair with a new high-speed 6-person lift, increasing capacity by nearly 50%.
- Breckenridge Ski Resort, Rip’s Ride Lift: The beginner/ski and ride school experience will be enhanced at the highly utilized Peak 8 base area by replacing the current fixed-grip double with a high-speed 4-person chair, increasing uphill capacity by nearly 70% and improving out-of-base circulation.
Utah
- Park City Mountain, Eagle Lift: A high-speed 6-person chair with a new mid-station will replace the existing Eagle lift, significantly reducing crowding and wait times, and improving the guest experience, especially for beginner skiers and ski and ride school guests.
- Park City Mountain, Silverlode 8-Person Lift: Vail Resorts’ first-ever high-speed 8-person chair, replacing an existing 6-person chair, will increase uphill capacity by 20% and reduce wait times at a critical spot to circulate guests on mountain.
Lake Tahoe, California & Nevada
- Northstar California, Comstock Lift: A new high-speed 6-person chair will replace the existing mid-mountain 4-person chair and is designed to reduce wait times at one of the mountain’s most popular lifts and increase uphill capacity by nearly 50%.
- Heavenly Ski Resort, North Bowl Lift: The replacement of an existing fixed-grip triple with a high-speed 4-person chair will increase uphill capacity by more than 40% and reduce the combined ride time of the Boulder and North Bowl lifts, which is expected to reduce wait times at the Stagecoach and Olympic lifts.
Vermont & New Hampshire
- Stowe Mountain Resort, Mountain Lift: The replacement and extension of the existing fixed-grip triple to a high-speed 6-person lift will increase uphill capacity by 100%, eliminate the steep hike to the base of the lift, improve reliability on windy days and offer beginner and intermediate guests with better access to lower-level terrain choices.
- Mount Snow, Sundance/Tumbleweed Lift: The replacement of the Sundance and Tumbleweed triples with one high-speed 6-person lift will improve access to underutilized terrain and alleviate pressure on other lifts in the main base area, increasing uphill capacity by nearly 70%.
- Mount Snow, Sunbrook Lift: A new high-speed 4-person chair to replace the existing fixed-grip quad will significantly decrease the current 14-minute ride time by approximately 30% and result in better utilization of the Sunbrook terrain.
- Attitash Mountain Resort: The replacement of the East and West Double-Double chairs with one fixed-grip 4-person chair will improve reliability and enhance the overall guest experience.
Pennsylvania & Ohio
- Jack Frost/Big Boulder: The replacement and consolidation of multiple lifts at both resorts will improve reliability and enhance the overall guest experience. Jack Frost will receive two new fixed-grip 4-person chairs (one to replace the B & C lifts and the other to replace the E & F lifts) and Big Boulder will receive a new fixed-grip 4-person chair to replace the Edelweiss Triple.
- Boston Mills/Brandywine: At Boston Mills, the resort will get a new fixed-grip 4-person chair replacing the Lift 5 double. At Brandywine, a new fixed-grip 4-person chair will replace the Lift 3 triple.
Including this latest capital plan dubbed the Epic Lift Upgrade, Vail Resorts’ total investment is expected to reach approximately $2.2 billion over 15 years. The move comes as Vail enjoys brisk season pass sales. Epic Pass adoption through September 17, 2021 for the upcoming 2021/2022 North American winter season increased approximately 42 percent in units and approximately 17 percent in sales dollars as compared to the same period in the prior year. Compared with pre-pandemic 2019, Epic Pass sales increased an incredible 67 percent in units and 45 percent in sales dollars.
Although no manufacturers were identified for the 19 new lifts, an initiative of this size is likely to include multiple suppliers.
Lift Blog 
Interesting that Breck is going with upgrading Lift 7 before replacing Lift 5.
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My theory about that is as follows: If Breckenridge were to replace Lift 5, that would involve an entire summer of the alpine slide being closed which would mean a big loss in profits. I’m guessing Rip’s Ride will be cannibalized to keep 5 running for another few years. Once parts become low for Lift 5 again, they’ll replace one of the other Riblets and the cycle will continue until there are no more riblets left at Breck and they’re forced to replace 5.
Also replacing Rip’s means you get over to Peak 9 quickly without having to ride 5 Chair or Colorado Chair.
I do wish they were replacing 5, 6, or C but I can’t complain.
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Replacing Lift 7 also means that there will be two detachables on the mountain servicing low beginner terrain. So far, the only one on the mountain is Quicksilver Super6.
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I think one of the issues they’d have with replacing 5, is the line turn, as well as the mid station. Both doable with a high speed lift, but far more complicated and expensive.
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The line turn was only necessary because of the placement of the original Colorado’s lower terminal. They wanted the bottom closer to the then-lodge and parking area than chair 1 was, which meant they had to move the bottom of 5 to allow for that. If/when they replace chair 5 now, they will most likely realign it slightly to bring it back straight. I would.
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Awesome! Small correction that Sunbrook @ Mt Snow is already a quad.
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That copy came straight from Vail. They also seem to have forgotten about the 8 pack at Perisher. Too busy ordering lifts I guess!
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Perisher will be a 6 pack D line. At least that’s what was approved by the state government.
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I was referring to the claim that Park City would have the company’s first 8 place chairlift.
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Ah sorry. They are also starting earth works on the Mt perisher 6 this Aussie summer. Will be finished for 2023 winter in Australia.
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Maybe they meant the first 8-pack actually purchased and installed by the company, seeing as Perish already had it’s 8-pack well before Vail bought it.
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Gonna be a big lift year… many more announcements to come.
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Bigger than big.
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What is the record for most lift projects in a year for the US? This year has got to come close.
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159 in 1972 at the height of the cheap double chair/T-Bar era. The way things are going, 2022 will probably be the largest ever for US lift sales in dollars but not number of lifts.
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Not even close. 1972 there were 165 lifts built in North America. 42 in Canada alone and 123 in the U.S.- 99 chairlifts and 24 surface lifts!
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Sorry Peter- I didn’t see your post.
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An 8 pack for Silverlode makes so much sense and an Eagle replacement makes even more sense. Most people at Park City don’t realize that the only true out of parking lot lifts are First Time, 3 Kings and Eagle without a short hike to Payday and Crescent. Has there been any word on what capacity these new lifts will be?
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Vail is advertising a 20% increase in capacity for Silverlode, so that is 3600 pph. Given that Eagle will be a six, and not for wind purposes, I would assume its capacity will be somewhere between 3000-3600 pph.
Strangely, Silverlode 8 will be the first 3600 pph lift at Park City. King Con moves 3400 pph and Tombstone moves 3200 pph, but nothing else tops 3000.
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Hoping we’ll get a storm skiing podcast about this soon.
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Talk about roaring out of the pandemic. I was hoping to see an upgrade for Dreamcatcher at Park City as well. Will the Eagle replacement be all-new? Perhaps the old Silverlode lift could move to Dreamcatcher?
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Wow
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Wow, they’re not replacing Summit at Attitash? Seems like it should be a higher priority. Also, the Big Red quad should definitely be used for the Franz’s/Tbar replacement.
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Agree! Seems like the most pressing need at Attitash – especially from a PR perspective.
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Didn’t Summit get a drive replacement just last year?
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Surprised that there’s no plan to replace the town lift at PCMR. It has a long ride time but I suppose not a lot of utilization.
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Town Lift was heavily refurbished a few years ago with new drive and electronic components. Despite being one of the oldest lifts in the complex now, there aren’t any rumblings about upgrading the lift, at least for the moment. There are other lifts that need more attention vs Town lift. Yes, the ride is long, but it’s OK for the moment, especially since it’s only typically used 1-2x a day by most skiers.
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I would think if the Town lift was replaced by the Creekside Gondola, it might be pretty beneficial so that people can easily download and eat lunch in town and then ride back up.
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Nothing as far as terrain expansion for Stevens, can’t say I’m surprised though
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Vail has owned Stevens Pass for three years and has already replaced 22% of their lift fleet. Yes, a Stevens Pass investment would have been nice this time around, but I think they have proven their commitment to the mountain and passholders can be optimistic about the future.
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Sunbrook is really needed to spread crowds but will the add more snowmaking over there? Big Dipper & Moonbeam would make basically 3½ ways down for that quad.
Sundance is also desperately needed but surprised they are going B2T for it and a 6 pack! Would be better to have it do Long John to Long John unless they are planning to run that base on weekdays. Will Hop / Uncles / Shootout get snowmaking and will South Bowl have snowmaking all the way across? If not way way too many folks over there unless they are stripping the GSX.
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I understand the need to add more snowmaking but personally I would be fine if they left Big Dipper and Uncles natural to keep that “classic” feel. Little Dipper used to have that as well before they put snowmaking on it. I think Hop is the best candidate off of Sundance to receive snowmaking.
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Great to see a the triple getting upgraded at Stowe! Bring another lift to improve people flow on Mansfield.
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RIP in peace the Double Doubles 😭
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So interesting that even with 19 lifts for next year there’s still a lot that will be left out.
Stevens Pass needs major base area and skier services investment, though the lift infrastructure is decent enough. They do have lift expansion plans on the books that Vail hasn’t touched. Heavenly is due for a couple lifts beyond North Bowl. Town Lift at PCMR has been mooted for years. Caples Crest at Kirkwood could probably be reoriented with a quad. The Northstar Master Plan has a number of lift expansions noted. And that doesn’t even touch Colorado or anything east of the Rockies.
Just goes to show the massive scale of Vail Resorts, I suppose.
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Town Lift at PCMR was heavily refurbished a couple years ago with new drive and electronic components, it’s lower priority than many other lifts at PCMR which will need either refurbishment or replacement.
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Well, at least a couple of these lifts will presumably be D-Line. Very excited to see this news!
Great news for Park City as well, Silverlode is the biggest bottleneck in the entire complex imo. Curious to see what happens to the Stealth II equipment that is currently there. Also nice to see Vail take the 8-pack plunge. This should help circulate skiers around better on this part of the mountain.
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I would think they relocate it to Eagle.
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Given Eagle is retaining its midstation, I feel they might go all-in and just built a new lift.
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That is, unless they go for a Payday style midstation.
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I would guess Vail Resorts goes all out with a brand new six chair. A mid-station turn seems tricky, and would involve fabrication of a custom terminal that uses technology from 25 years ago. Silverlode will likely be used for parts to keep the other Garaventa CTEC six chairs running.
If Vail Resorts were to re-use the existing equipment, I could see them upgrading Saddleback to a six chair and moving Saddleback over to replace Dreamcatcher or Dreamscape.
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I’m sure smaller resorts are seeing opportunity in this too. In the east alone there are 4 triples, a fixed quad, a double-double, and a triple-triple likely up for grabs. I could see Stowe maybe doing something with Mountain (maybe utilizing it and Okemo’s former Green Ridge lift as one, long triple) or Sundance, but given how much of a pain in the ass they apparently are to maintain I don’t see them hanging on to any Yan lifts, and I can’t imagine them having much use for any tandem lifts.
It is nice to see Vail investing in the east. If I had to guess, at Stowe, Toll House would be next on the chopping block. It’s their longest lift and putting in a detachable could give them a chance to expand that base area and make it a more desirable place to be. For reasons that need not be mentioned, Attitash’s Summit Triple’s days are likely numbered if Vail keeps up with this eastern investment. I’d also predict that if the new Sundance and Sunbrook lifts at Mount Snow help reduce lines and spread out skier traffic we could see Ego Alley removed without replacement.
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My thoughts on manufacturers as well as potential relocations. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. First is manufacturers, assuming all new lifts.
Whistler: Doppelmayr
Keystone: LPOA
Vail: Doppelmayr
Breck: LPOA
Park City: Doppelmayr
Northstar: Doppelmayr
Heavenly: Doppelmayr
Stowe: Doppelmayr
Mount Snow: LPOA
Attitash: Skytrac
JFBB: Skytrac
BMBW: Skytrac
Possible relocations:
Whistler, Big Red to Heavenly, North Bowl (with new towers instead of the old Yan towers)
Vail, Game Creek to Vail, Sun Down (with new UNI-G terminals, like Red Buffalo at Beaver Creek)
Park City, Silverlode to Park City, Eagle
Mount Snow, Sunbrook to Attitash, East/West
Retired Doppelmayr high speed quads parts used to build fixed grips at JFBB and BMBW.
Other thoughts:
Doppelmayr 8 pack and possibly 6 packs will be D-Line, high speed quads UNI-G.
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I don’t think Silverlode will be relocated to Eagle because Eagle is getting a midstation.
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Vail could go either way since they went with Doppelmayr for the first two six packs, then to LPA for the Sun Up Express and Northwoods Express, then back to Doppelmayr for the Golden Peak T-Bar.
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Actually, now that I think about it, if the Game Creek Express goes the way of Doppelmayr, they’d be able to reuse the towers (much like the Avanti Express).
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Probably LP for sun down and D for game creek (D line?)
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I think Vail will build the sundown lift as LP since that would best match High Noon which it will be directly adjacent to. The Game creek will probably be a D-Line doppelmayr but I don’t think they will relocate it.
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Bet Alterra will step up their game big time with this announcement. So far we have for 2022
Completion of Base to Base at Squaw
Wild Blue Stage 1 at Steamboat
Pioneer 6 pack at Winter Park
possibly Red Dog 6 pack at Squaw
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Vail owns 37 resorts, so this announcement gives them about 0.5 new lifts per resort. Alterra only owns 14, so they would only need an additional three on top of the four you listed to give them the same ratio (two if you count California Express as two separate lifts.
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Have to imagine that Mammoth Ch 16 and Ch 2 replacements with 6 packs are back on the list after this year’s postponement. Beyond that, I’m not aware of any meaningful lifts that have been rumored to be in the pipeline. Just given age of infrastructure, my guess is that Stratton and Snowshoe may be in line for something soon, but that’s just speculation.
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URSA 8 pack replacement would be nice.
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A Tamarack upgrade to a detachable quad is the next lift upgrade in line at Stratton. As of now, it is not on the docket for 2022. At Snowshoe, the next two planned upgrades are Ballhooter to a chondola and Powder Monkey to a fixed-grip quad. I have no idea what their timeline is like. Elsewhere at Alterra, Timber is still planned at Tremblant for either 2022 or 2023. I am hoping the Mammoth replacements being delayed results in them being eight seaters instead of six, but that is unlikely. At Deer Valley, Silver Lake is likely to be upgraded in a couple of years when construction is underway on the Snow Park development, and Mayflower will be building out as well if that counts. However, neither of those are likely until 2023.
URSA 8 at Stratton would be fantastic. My ideal scenario: URSA goes 8, existing equipment is heavily refurbished and used for Tamarack Express.
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I don’t know – a 6 on Red Dog would likely overwhelm the capacity of the limited number of runs served by the lift…
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I AM SIKED!!! WANTED SUN DOWN EXPRESS AND A GAME CREEK UPGRADE FOR SOOOOOO LONG!!!!
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The Sundown Express is certainly a big missing link in the lift system. Adding it will mean that skier traffic can go directly from Blue Sky Basin to the central and west Front Side with just two chairlift rides (the Teacup Express and the Sundown Express) as opposed to three (the Teacup Express, the Northwoods Express or High Noon Express, and the Wildwood Express); and bypass Patrol Headquarters and Mid-Vail entirely.
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Exciting!
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Sunapee has lifts in storage on site, and I’m surprised that they aren’t proceeding with those upgrades, since it’s reusing existing lifts. It’s the closest Vail resort to Boston and with the reduced pass prices, I expect it may get slammed with guests.
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I agree…very disappointing. They also need to do something with the Sun Bowl lift to keep it from continually breaking down. And then there is the West Bowl expansion…..
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I’m guessing the Bergman Express is going with a six pack for two reasons: 1) if it’s being built with 2,400 pph, the chairs will be spaced a bit further apart, which is handy for beginners (see the Sunnyside Express at Winter Park), and 2) heavier chairs means more wind resistance (the reason Breckenridge built the Kensho SuperChair as a six pack).
Breckenridge upgrading Lift 7 to a high speed quad is interesting, since I would think they would be upgrading Lift 5 first, but maybe that one’s not as urgent since Lift 5 primarily serves to supplement the Colorado SuperChair during the winter months.
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I think the other reason is if the east peak 8 lodging development goes up, that will further help mitigate crowds of people looking to go from that lodging section to 9.
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Hopefully Keystone goes with an upgrade of Wayback in 2023. Would make the runs in Erickson bowl that’s accessed from the new lift more repeatable.
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Is this the first time a six pack has been replaced or removed in North America?
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Yes.
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Very big year coming up! Super excited!
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A little surprised that 7th heaven wasn’t prioritised for an upgrade at Blackcomb. It is always so busy there. I was also wondering why they wouldn’t just extend the creekside gondola all the way up to Roundhouse instead of installing a 2nd new lift? I would think the extended gondola would make for a nicer experience
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7th Heaven offload needs a lot of regrading as part of an upgrade. Big project for the future. A new Creekside lift to the top would have wind issues. As well as being a massive, expensive lift.
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Rob, Can you confirm 100% that it is a direct location replacement for Creekside to base of Red as the implication is? I so much wish for the orange gondola to the top of Garbo per the master plan as an option. As that would get people up to some actual skiing off the lift, and able to goto Green (and ultimately Franzs when thats upgraded to a detachable. and if on the current line, any slight moving it back a bit to make room for much longer term projects like big timber? After watching the crews babying and coaxing the existing creekside gondola and time on backup I am sure you guys will be happy its being replaced
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that is my questionas as well
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Paul, the new lifts are going on the same alignments as the old ones. We pushed hard for CG to unload at Chic pea restaurant to no avail. The terminals at mid station will move a little to make skier space. I believe the top of Red and the bottom of CG are stating where they are. TBC.
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Rob, thanks for the clarification. I personally always wondered about the potential location for an Orange Gondola top station. Top of UDM (fuel bunker) seems best location for skiers, but not easy to get to for early/late season download + infrastructure in the way, plus not in/out by restaurant. Chic Pea seemsthe best overall option, but if we get 2030 Olympics its just the fraction to low down for start area, but seems the best natural location. The tree island above Franzs per the late 90’s survey line from creekside up seemed interesting, esp if Franzs (lil’ red) ever gets the VailGuest family friendly upgrade. For my observations, Red chair could have 15-25% greater loading capacity if they just dumped the turnstiles where clueless people get jammed up,
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EbAMdrybgZghTf6DA
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Rob can you confirm if something like the orange gondola will ever be built. Not seeing it here after all the investment makes me think it’s gonna be a longggg time indeed before any interesting stuff on that front. I’m sure Whistler west is 30 years or more out. I know it might be a pain to work on, but I’ll be sad to see the old gondola go.
-Morris
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@ MORRIS – To be honest, I can’t see the orange Gondola happening. The base area at Ceeekside is very tight. I don’t think there is room there for it. If the new CG terminal is located differently to what it is now there is a chance in the future, but I think the new gondola will provide the necessary capacity out of that location.
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Not a bubble in the bunch, which is okay with me. When was the last time Vail built a bubble?
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PS I mean brand new, not like the Okemo move.
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Vista Bahn, 1985. The rest they inherited.
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Wow. This is crazy. I’m curious if Alterra, Powdr, etc. will try and make an arms race out of this, or just sit back and wait a year (or several).
Also, a few of these lifts have got to be finding new homes, and not just being canabalized for parts right?
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It will be interesting to see if the PCMR Eagle replacement replaces both Eagle and Eaglet with the midstation being where Eagle currently ends, before turning to run up the ridge to King Con. The press release didnt seem to indicate one way or the other.
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Yes, looking at the existing lift, I don’t understand the need for a mid-station on the current line, as it would seem to serve only a few short black trails. That said, this lift was very helpful to flee major crowds at all other base lifts on my last visit – though I was of course met by more crowds at the add’l chairs higher up mountain, particularly Silverlode. Fear of that crowding and worse has me very cautious about when to visit PC this year.
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Looking at the map, I could see it be something like this: midway turn station where Eagle currently offloads, with the lift then running to the top of King Con.
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I don’t see a point of the mid-station in Eagle’s current configuration or what you propose. The proposed mid-station essentially serves the same terrain and does not provide access to any terrain that is notably easier which would require an earlier stop. Mind you I haven’t been to PC in about 10 years.
Why not just run Eagle straight to the top of King Con? This would provide access to more terrain and cut out costs for the unnecessary mid-station.
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Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see them drop the mid unload and reuse Silverlode like they did with the old King Con to Motherlode relocation a few years back.
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An article in the Park Record yesterday says that the new Eagle lift will be pretty much what Donald says above.
https://www.parkrecord.com/news/summit-county/park-city-mountain-resort-to-expand-two-lifts-next-year/
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Eagle lift mid station is used for race training. The 2 trails off the mid aren’t usually open for public skiing.
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The Summit Triple at Attitash and Look Out at Stowe seemed to be the next likely replacements at those resorts to me. The triple did have major work in the last two years. I thought, therefore maybe Vail wants to wait another year or two to replace it. Then I looked at Stowe’s Mountain Triple on Liftblog. The caption under the first photo is: This Doppelmayr opened in 1985 and serves as a reliever lift to FourRunner. Then there’s a photo of a new haul rope installed in 2018. So that had recent work as well. On the other hand, Lookout is a 1979 double. That seems, that is a reliever lift to FourRunner. I’ll be interested to see if we learn why Vail selected the lifts they did. Also, as Beyondthelodge says, Lookout’s listed vertical is way off. NewEnglandSkiHistory list it at 1750’.
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Recent work isn’t an indicator that a lift will stay long, in my experience. We in lift maintenance have to keep public safety in mind, which means that sometimes we have to make improvements and do projects to a lift to make sure it will continue to operate reliably, regardless of the time frame. Case in point, our old H-lift (now 49 North’s chair 6). We rebuilt/replaced the drive and controls one year, rebuilt the aux engine and gearbox the next, then tore it out the next year. We had done the same to K-lift and then it went away. I was in the middle of a multi-year conveyor system upgrade on the Flyer- and we had just replaced the drive and controls with the third generation- when it was removed. At Copper we’re starting to think the best way to replace a lift is to throw money at it.
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I will be shocked if Lookout is next to be replaced at Stowe. With Mountain 6 in place, that’s going to take a lot of pressure off of Forerunner, further reducing the need for any capacity upgrades on Lookout, which itself is just a relief valve for Forerunner in the first place.
I will eat my hat if the next lift to be replaced isn’t one of Forerunner or Toll House. The former is now 35 years old and is the undisputed workhorse of that mountain. I’ll truly be shocked if it’s not replaced with a 6 pack in the next 4-5 years. Toll House is a completely underutilized area of the mountain with a fair bit of developable land at the base that could relieve pressure further up the road. My guess is that it will be replaced with a high speed quad or six in conjunction with a new base area development, possibly extending the summit a bit to the intersection of Lord and Tyro to provide access to the full vertical of that blue pod.
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Fair point on Lookout replacement isn’t needed to help FourRunner. Actually your argument is even stronger because the current FourRunner is only 10 yrs. old. It replaced the original ForeRunner (spelling was changed) which would be 35 yrs. old if still there. Age would be a reason to replace Lookout. While it isn’t used midweek, it was built in 1979. Perhaps if Toll House is replaced, the FourRunner lift could go there, and a Six Shooter go in its place.
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Perhaps replace FourRunner with a more wind resistant six-pack and use the HSQ for Toll House….
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So Jack Frost is saying 1 quad and 1 triple. Wonder if that is correct or 2 quads is correct. Either way seems like a decrease in capacity.
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Jack Frost is indeed claiming the E/F replacement will be a triple. Given that Green Ridge 1.0 at Okemo is scheduled to go to a Vail PA resort, this would make a lot of sense.
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And makes it even more likely the outgoing Sunbrook quad at Mt. Snow will go to either Attitash or JFBB.
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I could definitely see Green Ridge going to E/F and Sunbrook going to Freedom. The capacity decrease for B/C is already puzzling, so I’d be surprised if they also went with a used lift that’s barely newer than the existing lifts. But we’ll see what happens.
My gut feeling is that Attitash will get a new lift. People are already so fed up over the Summit issues, I think Vail will spring for a new lift for East/West to save face a bit.
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With the size of Vail’s empire, here’s hoping we see a big rush of projects like this every summer for a while. They control about half the whole industry’s revenue so it makes sense for them to be installing half the lifts, and given the number of first-gen detachables and decades-old fixed grips in their empire, 19 new lifts barely makes a dent in their fleet. Just about every consequential resort in the US and Canada has joined one of the two passes, so there aren’t any major ones left for them to focus on buying up and can devote resources to integrating and improving what they have.
Peter’s been predicting a giant wave of new lifts for years now, and it looks like it’s here!
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Hopefully it gets Alterra to step up their game and build more new lifts. I wonder if this Vail announcement will become a ski lift war of resorts trying to one up each other in terms of ski lifts.
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I’m seeing a pattern in the new lifts Vail is planning to install in its East Coast resorts. They seem to want to only build lifts that service beginner or intermediate “family friendly” terrain even when there are expert lifts that may be a higher replacement priority.
At Mount Snow, Sundance and Sunbrook (which serve beginner and intermediate terrain) are being replaced while the older North Face expert lifts are staying. (Personally I am okay with this as I think a detachable lift would ruin the classic/vintage aesthetic of the North Face.)
At Attitash, the beginner Double-Double is being replaced while the much longer Summit Triple which serves most of the resort’s expert terrain will remain.
And finally at Stowe, the Mountain Triple which services mainly intermediate terrain will be replaced but the older and longer Lookout Double which serves more expert terrain will stay.
Can’t say I agree with this methodology for all cases, but it does seem to indicate that Vail is definitely trying to make these resorts more beginner-friendly which could have the potential to increase pass sales.
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Lookout serves almost everything FourRunner does, and FourRunner’s relatively new.
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Unrelated to lifts, but vista maps suck. Give me a James niehues or give me death as Patrick Henry used to say. :)
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It’s weird, because Stowe used to have a James Niehues map up until around the time the Spruce Peak high speed quads were built.
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Wow. What a fantastic announcement and I am quite surprised by how early it is as well! Perhaps they are getting ahead of the inevitable complaints about overcrowding with reduced pass prices by saying they have a plan to combat it. Hey, if they want to keep pass prices this low and build this many lifts every year, sign me up!
Some thoughts on the announcement:
Whistler: I am surprised they are replacing Creekside instead of supplementing it. They are claiming to boost capacity by 35%, so that brings it to 3200 pph, which is not bad, but morning rush warrants an even higher demand. Perhaps there are some maintenance issues? This would also indicate it gets retired instead of relocated. The Big Red upgrade in tandem makes a ton of sense, although that lift should have some decent life left, so I am sure they will find a place for it in the empire.
Keystone: If I remember correctly, Keystone was already advertising this expansion for 2022 on their website, so this does not really come as much of a surprise.
Vail: Sun Down can probably thank the viral lift line photos at High Noon for its existence. Game Creek has also been a long time coming. Vail is claiming to increase its capacity by 50%, but its existing capacity is listed at 2800, which would mean 4200? That seems impossible for a six. More likely, its existing capacity is actually 2400 and it is going to 3600. I would have liked to see them move the bottom terminal further down the bowl to give an option beyond Game Trail for going from Eagle’s Next to Game Creek, but it is what it is.
Breck: This makes a lot of sense given the trend of making beginner lifts detachable, although there is an argument to be made that 5 deserved this treatment ahead of Rip’s Ride.
Park City: Vail finally building an 8! It was only a matter of time, but I am surprised they are only doing it here. The capacity is going to be 3600, which is what Game Creek 2.0, Comstock 2.0, and Big Red 2.0 will have, so why did they not get the same treatment? Silverlode is also young enough where it should be able to find another home. I know they are retaining the midstation, but I really do not know why, as it seems as though they can just extend the two trails it serves and save a ton of money.
Northstar: Vail investing in California? What year is it? Anyway, this upgrade makes a ton of sense all around.
Heavenly: I cannot complain after years of no investment, but it would really be nice if they slightly realigned the lift to end it adjacent to Stagecoach. At least make a one-stop ride to Galaxy possible in case they ever do put in a high-speed lift there.
Stowe: Wonderful to see Vail investing in their first east coast acquisition! This is a fantastic move, and regrading the base is not as flashy but arguably more important here. I could also see them quietly removing Lookout when this is installed, as this is more capacity than the existing Lookout and Mountain lifts combined! Funny that Stowe being cheap in 2011 by not replacing FourRunner with a six-pack means that Mountain will be the first Stowe lift to go six.
Mount Snow: Glad to see a focus on somewhere beyond the main face with Sunbrook! It is a nice pod for intermediates to escape the front crowds and warm up a bit on those brutal VT winter days. With that being said, man oh man are they just committed to throwing as many bodies on the main face as possible with the Sundance/Tumbleweed upgrade! This will be two detachable quads and two detachable six-packs serving essentially the same terrain. I guess it is either icy slopes or long lines, and ice prevails here. Honestly, given their focus on beginner zones, I would have expected them to replace Tumbleweed and Seasons with a single detachable lift anchoring a learning zone.
Attitash: I am surprised this will not be detachable given that it serves a lot of beginners and that is the new trend. I guess the Summit Triple refuses to die as well. Unpopular opinion: I would rather see the Summit Triple continue on and a new detachable lift be installed in Top Notch’s old alignment.
JFBB: Nice little upgrades here, although I am surprised they are going for (presumably) new quads instead of reusing Green Ridge from Okemo. I remember an Okemo or Vail representative clearly mentioning last year that Green Ridge was heading to one of the PA resorts.
Boston Mills/Brandywine: These lifts are ancient, and there comes a time when new lifts are more cost-effective than buying replacement parts. I would be surprised if they are entirely new and not just reused from elsewhere in the fleet to save money.
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“The Big Red upgrade in tandem makes a ton of sense, although that lift should have some decent life left, so I am sure they will find a place for it in the empire.”
Maybe Blackcomb can get it, since the two newest high speed quads on Blackcomb were hand-me-downs from Whistler.
“Breck: This makes a lot of sense given the trend of making beginner lifts detachable, although there is an argument to be made that 5 deserved this treatment ahead of Rip’s Ride.”
With that argument being the fact that Lift 5 getting upgraded would move some skier traffic from the Colorado SuperChair. (It would probably have a turn mid-station for the Alpine Slide)
“Sun Down can probably thank the viral lift line photos at High Noon for its existence. Game Creek has also been a long time coming. Vail is claiming to increase its capacity by 50%, but its existing capacity is listed at 2800, which would mean 4200? That seems impossible for a six. More likely, its existing capacity is actually 2400 and it is going to 3600.”
The Vail Resorts pressers can’t do math. But 3,600 pph seems like the logical capacity needed there (which is the capacity of the Doppelmayr high speed six packs).
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They are probably building Silverlode as an 8 so that they can add more capacity in future if needed.
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“If needed” will probably be more of a “when needed.” Now with another high capacity out of base lift, Park City will for sure need to add capacity to Silverlode in the near future.
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It’s either that or build a supplementary detachable out of Miner’s Camp running towards the top of Crescent.
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I’m not seeing the reason for a lift to the top of Crescent from Miner’s It only gets you to Bonanza and has no lappable terrain. A lift that goes to the top of Mel’s Alley from Miner’s makes more sense in that it has lappable terrain and it can get you to more lifts other than Bonanza.
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The 2 trails off the eagle mid station are used for race training which is why the mid station is staying
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Creekside Gondola’s replacement doesn’t really surprise me at all. It’s a piece of junk, almost 10 years newer than Excalibur, and feels 10 years older. No point in trying to just supplement it or even just upgrade cabins. Just start fresh. What I’m really wondering if they’ll end up doing is running them both in the summer like they did in the summer of 2018. Big Red’s downhill capacity dropped to 25% which kinda screwed that up, which really sucked, Creekside finally felt like a part of the mountain in the summer. Creekside’s its own beast in the summer, and they’ve made it a little more interesting running the gondola for the bike park, but I’d love to see it link up with Roundhouse again. Very curious to see where Big Red ends up, 7th Heaven’s been on death’s door for years but I’d imagine they’re just putting in a 6 once they’re done running that into the ground.
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For the record, CG is 2 years younger than Excalibur. 1994 and 1996. Red will probably be stripped of parts and scrapped. Running Red in 2018 was really only to cover the fact there was nothing on Blackcomb with the BG install going on. I think there would need to be some other compelling reason to reopen it in the summer. That also assumes you can find lift operators, which are scarce right now.
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Curious re: thought process on selecting a 8 passenger vs 10 passenger Gondola?
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Given that they also used it to supplement the bike park I’d say they have plenty of reason
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@Alex. Don’t know what the thought process is there.I know they want to use the existing maintenance barn and 10 passenger gondola cabins probably don’t fit in it.
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Also red is a Yan retrofit so it could be scrapped although retrofitted Emerald was relocated to Catskinner.
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Does anyone know if the new creekside will be 6m/s? and is it getting a bigger parking building or will they stay on the line all the time?
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@kaden01m The lift is 6m/s. The cabins will remain online. No parking, just a maintenance barn.
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Thanks!
Are there going to be new bike carriers or will they just go in the cabins now?
And what is the next most likely upgrade for WB after this project?
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Bikes will go in the cabins. No idea.
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I hope they run Big Red in the summer, access to the roundhouse would be great!
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A someone who grew up skiing PC, this announcement to replace Eagle is quite fascinating. I’d assume vail wants another out of base workhorse so I’d assume the route will go all the way to the top of King Kong. Otherwise it will just overload King Kong. If they route it to the top of King Kong, you’ll have King Kong, silverlode and the quicksilver gondola as options from there.
Also, as a side note they really need to open the runs off of eagle to the public or once you’re too the top there is no way back down to the base without heading over to bonanza, top of crescent.
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After 20 years staying at creekside, I will miss the old beast. I’m sure there will be a cabin auction sometime after it’s gone though
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Big Red’s going to be interesting, considering that the existing lift has that wrap-around tower on the downhill side as it goes up the cliff. Will they retain this or will the lift be built on a different alignment to avoid this?
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That’s an original Yan tower. All the new lifts use less towers and larger sheave assemblies so the towers will be mostly in different locations. Alignment will be the same.
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I mean, in the context of “will Big Red 6 need an offset tower for clearance purposes on the downhill side at the point where the current lift does?”
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Sort answer is no. I think that tower was added after the original installation to address a clearance issue.
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Peter probably sighed heavily seeing how many flights he will have to make next year with this announcement lol
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Can anybody confirm or deny whether these lifts will be new installations, or if some will be relocated from lifts removed as part of this upgrade? Between the Vail press release, SAM and Peter’s post this is not entirely clear. While a majority are new, I would have to imagine some will be reinstallations of existing equipment from other properties within the portfolio.
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I think the name for the new lift at Breckenridge will be called Rip’s Ride SuperChair.
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Thoughts on all of these lift upgrades:
WB: Much needed, good investment
Vail: Also pretty needed, good investment, we won’t be seeing anymore of those outrageous trending photos of 2hr lines @ High Noon on pow days when they only open Sun Down Bowl before everything else lol in the BB and BSB
Keystone: Not needed as much but I think its cool to see a lift go in Bergman Bowl; will open some more good terrain I bet
Breck: Why not chair 5? Needed but why not chair 5??
Park City: I think their plans here are great, great to finally see Vail put in a 8 pack, and I hope people use the new Eagle 6 pack as another high speed way out of base despite it being just a tad out of the way of base. (according to trail map, if it is not that out of the way compared to Crescent and Payday Express, someone correct me I have never been to PC) The only other lift I think they should’ve upgraded is simply Dreamcatcher to a HS4 or HS6
Northstar: Good upgrade, good investment vail
Heavenly: I feel like they should’ve updated should’ve upgraded Canyon or Sky up to a 6 Express and then moved that express quad down to North Bowl but I guess its better than nothing?
Stowe: YES!!! This is very needed, I think this is a great upgrade. Rip mtn triple tho..
Mt Snow: YES AGAIN! Both of these lifts I think are going to help make the uphill capacity of Mt. Snow go way up, I think out of all the upgrades on this list I think this one will most likely make the most difference, but I have not skied at all of these mountains so don’t quote me on it
Attitash: Needed, good investment.
JF/BB: Fair, I think instead of a lift upgrade here though they should’ve made like a lodge upgrade or something, however those lifts were old so I get it.
Boston Mills/Brandywine: Never skied here but with these resorts being some of the only resorts in Ohio it was probably pretty needed.
Recap: Overall great upgrades coming out of the pandemic, happy to see a 3rd 8 pack come to North America, and I think all of these upgrades will for sure help with uphill cap.
Leave your thoughts below, I’m happy to hear them
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Regarding PCMR, the majority of the parking there at that base is adjacent to the First Time/Three Kings/Eagle lifts. It’s either a short walk, or a ride up First Time/Three Kings to get up to Payday/Crescent. That being said there is a small upper parking lot that is closer to Payday/Crescent but if they can get more people out of the two lower parking lots (which are bigger but still not that big) that will be great.
The biggest problem with using Eagle as an out of base lift currently is the lack of return options back to the base area from there (there’s a south-east facing cat-track which tends to in a low snow year be quite rocky, or a fairly steep groomed run that’s frequently closed for racing.) It also forces you to take Silverlode later to get out of the King Con area.
I assume that by upgrading Silverlode they now feel comfortable with putting a little bit more pressure on that side of the resort to get people out of the base. While re-aligning Eagle to the top of King Con (so you can bypass that lift on your way to Silverlode or Quicksilver) would be nice, it seems unlikely at this point. I think the missing puzzle piece at this point in time is where the new midstation will be.I don’t think it would be possible to put a detachable midstation at the current midstation’s location (even if it were a half-style station like OBX) without a ton of excavation work on that steep hillside. They mention improving the experience for beginner skier’s and ski school customers, which to me implies that the midstation might be before the steep climb up to the top of the ridgeline. If that’s the case than it would seem like the lift will just end at its current terminus. I assume a map will come out sometime which details this further.
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Regarding Eagle, if you read the Park City Record article, they report that the summit terminal will in fact be close to the top of King Con with the explicit intent of enabling access to Silverlode/Quicksilver in one ride. Also says that Eaglet is being removed. Only thing I can conclude is that the lift will follow the current alignment to the top of Ski Team ridge where there will be a mid-station that turns left to run up the ridge to King Con. Improving the beginner/intermediate experience is, IMO, not about adding a mid-station to duplicate access to terrain already well served by First Tie and 3 Kings but is rather about enabling one-ride access to low-intermediate terrain in the core of the mountain at Silverlode e.g. Claim Jumper, Assessment, Parley’s etc…
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Oh man, I had somehow missed the Park Record article. Thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot of sense! I think that fills in the pieces of the puzzle I was missing.
@Peter Landsman it looks like VR will be retiring three CTEC chairlifts from PCMR, all under 30 years old.
https://www.parkrecord.com/news/summit-county/park-city-mountain-resort-to-expand-two-lifts-next-year/
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I think the JF lodge is good, maybe in need of a refresh and maybe an addition as well, but otherwise it works well. I’m not a fan of the BB lodge, but I think Vail would be less interested in an investment there than at JF. Freedom chair was down most (all?) of last season so the replacement is definitely needed. The E/F replacement I think is also good, but I’m a bit puzzled by the B/C replacement, especially since they’re decreasing capacity.
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slow and steady, folks. Slow and steady. There is no need to rush everything. When you rush, you make mistakes.
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It seems as though this announcement may be expanded, as Vail is claiming they will announce additional projects in both December 2021 and March 2022 that will be completed during summer 2022. I am sure they will not be quite as large of announcements, but that is still exciting. I doubt any other lift upgrades would be announced unless they are minor and reuse existing lifts that are being removed.
Vail has also indicated that Epic Lift Upgrade is a multi-year plan, so I am anticipating similarly large announcements for the next couple of seasons.
It is interesting how Vail and Alterra are taking different approaches to upgrade their resorts that fit within their company models. Vail, with a very centralized business model, is attempting to present a homogenous product across the entire Epic lineup. Alterra, with a decentralized business model, is custom tailoring each mountain’s future to keep them all unique. It is nice that this creates some diversity in product options.
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Can you share the source that shared that Vail is planning on making an additional lift announcement in December? I’m not saying it isn’t possible, it just seem unlikely after a $320M announcement.
Also, Park City confirmed on IG over the weekend that the updated Eagle will be a new lift, not a relo from Silverlode.
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Not all of the $320 million is for lifts. That is Vail’s total capital spending plan for 2022. I read it to mean the other projects to be announced later are for other things besides lifts.
https://investors.vailresorts.com/news-releases/news-release-details/vail-resorts-announces-320-million-capital-plan-19-new
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Regarding Breck:
My guess is that they went for the replacement of Chair 7/Rip’s Ride instead of Chair 5 for a couple of reasons:
1) Upgrading from FGD(2) to HSQ(4) since it primarily serves beginner terrain makes it a lot easier to ride for children / adult ski schools; as there is no other true beginner terrain on Peak 8.
Chair 5 doesn’t as effectively serve this terrain the way Rip’s Ride does and is more isolated a better teaching area
2) Pushing the connecting Peak 8 -> Peak 9 connecting traffic over to Rips Ride and trying to take the skier pressure off of the Mid-section of 4′ O clock from Colorado & Chair 5 down to the top of Rips were the trail opens up a bit more
More or less makes for a much better begineers area on that side of the resort that doesn’t really exist today.
Its also probably a much easier replacement from a permitting / regulatory standpoint as well
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Also chair 5 serves the alpine slide in the summer months. There’s a mid station for summer that’s not open during ski season. Not sure how they’d run it as a hsq and still access the alpine slide.
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One could always put a low-speed unload-only midstation in, similar to the Eagle at Grouse (except theirs is load-only). Swing the half-tower out of the way for the winter and run it full speed then.
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“Pushing the connecting Peak 8 -> Peak 9 connecting traffic over to Rips Ride and trying to take the skier pressure off of the Mid-section of 4′ O clock from Colorado & Chair 5 down to the top of Rips were the trail opens up a bit more”
Lift 7’s relatively isolated from the rest of the lifts. As it were, the people who’d be using it for transiting are more likely to hit Lift 5 or the Colorado SuperChair because they’re coming from trails that enter the base area around that point.
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RIP old lifts :/
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Considering the company market cap is near $14B now. The price of this package just paid for itself by being announced. Bravo
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So in the press release it mentions more announcements in December 2021 and March 2022. They also said this is only the initial list. What do you think the announcements will be, more lifts?
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They’ve used that language before and the later projects were mostly non-lift related.
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So looking at the Sundown Express on the map…
I get the impression that there may be some regrading work necessary on the funnel trail bringing Sundown Bowl traffic to the lift and the High Noon Express, especially given that it’ll need to also take on traffic bypassing Patrol Headquarters and Mid-Vail.
I think it’s going to start somewhere around those two trees on the left side of this picture:
And for reference point, the unload will be about halfway between where these two pictures were taken.
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Definitely still hoping the old Silverlode gets relocated, there are other areas at the mountain which could use the capacity upgrade. And that Silverlode 2.0 is D-Line.
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it would be cool if both Silverlode and Eagle are D-Line, considering that Eagle will be a 6er.
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I think Silverlode 6 will be cannibalized as a parts donor for Payday, McConkey’s and Bonanza.
Silverlode 8 is almost certainly going to be a D-Line, and maybe the same will be the case for Eagle.
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Unless Silverlode has some mechanical problem that prevents it from continuing on without an extremely costly refurbishment, Vail would be stupid to cannibalize it for parts. Even if they cannot find a use for it at Park City, or anywhere else in the empire, there are plenty of mountains that would relish the opportunity to purchase a six-pack at a price less than $7+ million (or whatever the going rate for a new six happens to be). Cannibalization only makes sense if the lift is worth more as parts than as a complete package, which is just simply not the case here.
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Will this solve the lack-of-staff issues? I think not. At Park City this week there were 5 lifts, 3 lodges and I don’t know how many trails closed due, I hear, to lack of staff.
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Given that this article was written in September, before any of us even had snow to work with or seasonal staff to do anything, I’d say the two topics are mutually exclusive. I’m sure VR, whatever their faults, made this decision and announced it without an inkling of their coming personnel challenges.
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Good point. Now that Vail knows, I think they should reallocate resources to get the lifts, lodges and slopes running.
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Doesn’t work that way. New lifts and infrastructure are capital expenditures while lift operations, lodging and slopes are from the operational budget. That being said, I’m fairly certain they are reacting to their on mountain challenges as best they can.
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